A new hard working class in society caught in a trap.

LydiaJ

mostlycheerful wrote: »

Also consider sharing the house buy with another couple with a kid and then you can buy a bigger place and get economies of scale and better value for money and therefore more rooms to let to lodgers to get some or all of the mortgage paid.

This is not an entirely new idea. My parents bought in 1959. They only had one baby at the time, but they wanted lots more, so they bought a 5-double-bedroom Victorian semi in a nice area and let the entire top floor to another couple for a few years until more babies came along and they needed the space.

They really had to stretch themselves to get such a big place, though - it was about two and a half times my dad's salary and my mum wasn't working. He was a junior lecturer at a university - I've just seen an equivalent job advertised at that university now with the salary range listed as £33,600-£43,840pa. I'm afraid I've no idea what the mortgage interest rate was in 1959.

StevieJ

SingleSue wrote: »

No idea how old you are but it was normal when I was a child for the mum to be at home in my area....don't think any of my friend's mums worked.

I was born 1970.

This was also not a council house area, it was a very middle class area of owner occupiers.

I suppose that is the point, it depends how much one income brings in.

do_it_today!

mostlycheerful wrote: »

“they have NO secure housing, the landlord could turf them out with a months notice.
Yet their income is quite high”

They should do as all sensible people do and get a mortgage and buy a place. Halifax are currently offering up to 4.7 times income and if you do as many first time buyers do and get a place big enough to have some spare bedrooms and or a living room with it’s own door and therefore not a through lounge, then you rent them out to lodgers and get some or all the mortgage paid for you. It’s a winning formula, it’s not rocket science, nearly anyone working can do it, even in London on minimum wage. Not everyone can do this but nearly all people can.

Min wage £12k
Times 2 for 2 people £24k
x 4.7 mortgage £112.8k

there are some 2 bed flats in London for this price
there are 4 and 5 bed houses for this price in most parts of the country, including Essex which is right next to London, but not, of course, in London itself

If 2 bed flat in London :
rent out the small bedroom or the living room to lodgers, £300/£400 a month, covers over half or most of the mortgage

If 4/5 bed house in other parts of the country :
Rent out 3/4 bedrooms at £250 a month each, total £750/£1,000 a month, all the mortgage paid and a profit on top

If earning more than minimum wage this is much more doable.

Eventually, after a few years, if your circumstances get better then you can afford not to need lodgers and have the place to yourself. However, when you’re starting out this is the business model that is doable.

Also consider sharing the house buy with another couple with a kid and then you can buy a bigger place and get economies of scale and better value for money and therefore more rooms to let to lodgers to get some or all of the mortgage paid.

68% of people buy in UK, only 32% stay in the rent trap. Get with the programme, wake up and smell the coffee. It’s very doable, it doesn’t often go wrong, several billion people do this all round the planet. So, you can sort your future out or you can be a mug. What’s it going to be?

Re childcare why not find a local stay at home mum and pay her a nominal amount to look after yours? Or do they all exploit the situation and charge the earth? Ok, set your own one up, so rent a space and hire one or two local mums for the going rate to run it and or for minimum wage some students and or people on the dole to assist them. Then you yourself charge all the local mums the going rate and when it kicks in then you make a fortune, and possibly enough to give up your job and go full time. Plenty of people start small businesses for all sorts of reasons and if your current jobs and life situations are not making you happy and may not be sustainable, then, yes, you ought to do something about it and make some changes. Where there’s a will there’s a way. There’s always alternatives and other possibilities. You don’t have to stay buried in a pit, you can dig yourself out. Good luck.

Im curious as to where in London you could get a 2 bed flat today for £112k? also a large proportion of 2beds are not 2 double bedrooms

I would consider renting a room out but I cant imagine who would want to rent a room in a home with two children under the age of 3 :rotfl:

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

What a nice black and white world you live in.

All the middle class are hardworking and anyone in receipt of benefits is a chav.

You sound delightful.

I don't really get why the leftie does this to themselves.

Someone describes exactly who they are talking about....in this case WORKSHY chavs.

You, in your disgust, turn round and proclaim he said every benefit claimant.

Is it not, therefore, you with the issues in seperating benefit claimant and workshy chav?

do_it_today!

StevieJ wrote: »

I suppose that is the point, it depends how much one income brings in.

And also if the income is steady and regular ... if self employed this is not always the case.

Davesnave

Have I missed it, or has no one so far suggested that having a parent care for the child, rather than a minder, is a desirable end in itself?

LilacPixie

Childcare does cost a fortune. We would be upwards of £1300 a month for our three when I return after maternity leave. OH only earns a fraction over than amount after tax NI pension student loan, cost of commute etc. We get around it by my only working 4 days a week and starting at 10, OH starts 4am and my retired parents step in and bridge the gap, we are very very lucky that my parents are reasonably young and fit. My dad worked his bumm off and missed most ofmy siblings childhood so he is enjoying being a big kid and doing lots of fun type things like swimming lessons, football and gym.

If we didn't have that OH would be a SAHD.

SingleSue

StevieJ wrote: »

I suppose that is the point, it depends how much one income brings in.

For my parents, initially a good income as dad was in construction but after dad fell off the bridge he was building when I was two, very little indeed but dad was/is a traditionalist and as such, mum's place was in the home looking after the children (can you tell we knocked heads over this issue :rotfl:), no matter how things became. As far as he was concerned, it was his job to provide for the family.

So, we had a fair few years of no money, electricity being cut off, home made bread, home knitted school clothes etc until he was able to firstly come out of hospital and be able to walk and then secondly, change career and move into office work starting at the bottom.

They didn't have the latest gadgets (mum was from a working class background), they made do and mended items, there were no luxury holidays abroad, our presents came from auctions and second hand shops but did we care? Not a jot, we never felt different to our peers, we never felt resentment etc because all of our friends had a single earner too and we shared our toys so we all benefited from what our parents could buy us.

Their experiences from the early 70's shaped the way they went through the following years and as dad went up the career ladder and his money improved (which came mainly after I had left home), they never let go of their thriftyness..so now in retirement and on that one income, they have enough of a private pension and savings to not rely on any extra help from the government.

do_it_today!

Davesnave wrote: »

Have I missed it, or has no one so far suggested that having a parent care for the child, rather than a minder, is a desirable end in itself?

Would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be a SAHM but doing this would greatly increase the risk of our family having to be part funded by the state (ie variable dh income) unless we downgrade to a 1bed flat - either option we are not really prepared to do. so the compromise is childcare 4 days a week and 36+ hours each a week employment. For me parent care would be the ideal...

Linton

Davesnave wrote: »

Have I missed it, or has no one so far suggested that having a parent care for the child, rather than a minder, is a desirable end in itself?

It may well be desirable, but the Great British Public clearly believes that having as big a house in as nice an area as one can possibly afford is more important.

As in all things political/economic what is desirable is irrelevent; what is important is how people actually behave and the logical consequences of that behaviour.