A new hard working class in society caught in a trap.

ILW

movilogo wrote: »

So the hard working middle class wil pay thru nose for childcare and workshy chavs will breed like animals because their childcare/housing/etc. will be borne by taxpayers?

NOBODY should have children which they know they cannot support by their own means.

movilogo

NOBODY should have children which they know they cannot support by their own means

You can't implement that. However, nobody should get any sort of child benefit is easy to implement.

mostlycheerful

“they have NO secure housing, the landlord could turf them out with a months notice.
Yet their income is quite high”

They should do as all sensible people do and get a mortgage and buy a place. Halifax are currently offering up to 4.7 times income and if you do as many first time buyers do and get a place big enough to have some spare bedrooms and or a living room with it’s own door and therefore not a through lounge, then you rent them out to lodgers and get some or all the mortgage paid for you. It’s a winning formula, it’s not rocket science, nearly anyone working can do it, even in London on minimum wage. Not everyone can do this but nearly all people can.

Min wage £12k
Times 2 for 2 people £24k
x 4.7 mortgage £112.8k

there are some 2 bed flats in London for this price
there are 4 and 5 bed houses for this price in most parts of the country, including Essex which is right next to London, but not, of course, in London itself

If 2 bed flat in London :
rent out the small bedroom or the living room to lodgers, £300/£400 a month, covers over half or most of the mortgage

If 4/5 bed house in other parts of the country :
Rent out 3/4 bedrooms at £250 a month each, total £750/£1,000 a month, all the mortgage paid and a profit on top

If earning more than minimum wage this is much more doable.

Eventually, after a few years, if your circumstances get better then you can afford not to need lodgers and have the place to yourself. However, when you’re starting out this is the business model that is doable.

Also consider sharing the house buy with another couple with a kid and then you can buy a bigger place and get economies of scale and better value for money and therefore more rooms to let to lodgers to get some or all of the mortgage paid.

68% of people buy in UK, only 32% stay in the rent trap. Get with the programme, wake up and smell the coffee. It’s very doable, it doesn’t often go wrong, several billion people do this all round the planet. So, you can sort your future out or you can be a mug. What’s it going to be?

Re childcare why not find a local stay at home mum and pay her a nominal amount to look after yours? Or do they all exploit the situation and charge the earth? Ok, set your own one up, so rent a space and hire one or two local mums for the going rate to run it and or for minimum wage some students and or people on the dole to assist them. Then you yourself charge all the local mums the going rate and when it kicks in then you make a fortune, and possibly enough to give up your job and go full time. Plenty of people start small businesses for all sorts of reasons and if your current jobs and life situations are not making you happy and may not be sustainable, then, yes, you ought to do something about it and make some changes. Where there’s a will there’s a way. There’s always alternatives and other possibilities. You don’t have to stay buried in a pit, you can dig yourself out. Good luck.

Percy1983

It is true to a point, you have hard working people struggling to pay for children and in some cases not having children due to it.

Meanwhile you get some chavs having them at regular intervals to keep the benefits coming.

flashnazia

mostlycheerful wrote: »

Min wage £12k
Times 2 for 2 people £24k
x 4.7 mortgage £112.8k

there are some 2 bed flats in London for this price
there are 4 and 5 bed houses for this price in most parts of the country, including Essex which is right next to London, but not, of course, in London itself

In london/Essex? At those prices?

Katie-Kat-Kins

mostlycheerful wrote: »

“they have NO secure housing, the landlord could turf them out with a months notice.
Yet their income is quite high”

They should do as all sensible people do and get a mortgage and buy a place. Halifax are currently offering up to 4.7 times income and if you do as many first time buyers do and get a place big enough to have some spare bedrooms and or a living room with it’s own door and therefore not a through lounge, then you rent them out to lodgers and get some or all the mortgage paid for you. It’s a winning formula, it’s not rocket science, nearly anyone working can do it, even in London on minimum wage. Not everyone can do this but nearly all people can.

Min wage £12k
Times 2 for 2 people £24k
x 4.7 mortgage £112.8k

there are some 2 bed flats in London for this price
there are 4 and 5 bed houses for this price in most parts of the country, including Essex which is right next to London, but not, of course, in London itself

If 2 bed flat in London :
rent out the small bedroom or the living room to lodgers, £300/£400 a month, covers over half or most of the mortgage

If 4/5 bed house in other parts of the country :
Rent out 3/4 bedrooms at £250 a month each, total £750/£1,000 a month, all the mortgage paid and a profit on top

If earning more than minimum wage this is much more doable.

Eventually, after a few years, if your circumstances get better then you can afford not to need lodgers and have the place to yourself. However, when you’re starting out this is the business model that is doable.

Also consider sharing the house buy with another couple with a kid and then you can buy a bigger place and get economies of scale and better value for money and therefore more rooms to let to lodgers to get some or all of the mortgage paid.

68% of people buy in UK, only 32% stay in the rent trap. Get with the programme, wake up and smell the coffee. It’s very doable, it doesn’t often go wrong, several billion people do this all round the planet. So, you can sort your future out or you can be a mug. What’s it going to be?

Re childcare why not find a local stay at home mum and pay her a nominal amount to look after yours? Or do they all exploit the situation and charge the earth? Ok, set your own one up, so rent a space and hire one or two local mums for the going rate to run it and or for minimum wage some students and or people on the dole to assist them. Then you yourself charge all the local mums the going rate and when it kicks in then you make a fortune, and possibly enough to give up your job and go full time. Plenty of people start small businesses for all sorts of reasons and if your current jobs and life situations are not making you happy and may not be sustainable, then, yes, you ought to do something about it and make some changes. Where there’s a will there’s a way. There’s always alternatives and other possibilities. You don’t have to stay buried in a pit, you can dig yourself out. Good luck.

I think that just paying the local chav to look after your children raises all kind of problems.......

not least the requirements for offsed registration of childcare.

Jowo_2

The following example for me is telling as to why some households are better off on benefits than employment, though I blame the lack of affordable housing, costly childcare and low wages as the major reasons rather than the recipients who are quite understandably not incentivised to take up employment or face more constraints to getting a decent job.

A single parent with 2 children living in a £600 per month rental property with £100 per month council tax can expect to get £200 per week in benefits, plus their rent and CT paid. That's about 18k in benefits a year which is equivalent to a taxable wage of around 23k.

Meanwhile, a single person working full time on the minimum wage would find they'd get a similar sum of around £200 per week after tax but then lose the bulk on their housing and CT costs. That's an annual salary of around £11k.

I know I'm comparing apples with pears in some way but it does illustrate that a single parent in full time employment is unlikely to be able to ever cover their household costs independent of the state unless they have a fabulous paying job, and/or free or very cheap childcare, and/or very low rent.

If the single parent does secure a NMW job, it isn't sufficient to bring up their family as it is paying out around half of what they can get from the state without working and it means they face other expenses, such as travel and childcare costs. So even if they do get an average paying job, the public purse still needs to prop them up until their children reach adulthood.

silvercar

Low earners get help with child care costs. :

direct.gov_website wrote:

How much tax credit can you get?
You can get help with up to 80 per cent of your childcare costs - subject to a maximum limit in the amount of childcare costs you can claim each week.
If you pay childcare for:
one child, the maximum childcare cost you can claim is £175 a week
two or more children, the maximum cost you can claim is £300 a week
This means that the maximum help you can get for your childcare through tax credits is:
£140 a week for one child
£240 a week for two or more children
The actual amount you get will depend on your income - the lower your income, the more tax credits you can get.

sKiTz-0

mostlycheerful wrote: »

“

Min wage £12k
Times 2 for 2 people £24k
x 4.7 mortgage £112.8k

What happens if there's only one of you?

SingleSue

StevieJ wrote: »

How old are the 'old days' because both my parents worked as did most of my friends parents.

No idea how old you are but it was normal when I was a child for the mum to be at home in my area....don't think any of my friend's mums worked.

I was born 1970.

This was also not a council house area, it was a very middle class area of owner occupiers.