A new hard working class in society caught in a trap.

Batchy

It makes you think either realistically, and more affordably.

When you have two incomes it makes things a lot easier.

When your sharing costs, it makes things a lot cheaper.

Most people think their existence means nothing without kids, and without a home, will you ever really be happy. Social housing is just as good for various reasons as owning, as its secure and cheap.

But what about those left in the middle at the moment.

IMO, we have developed a new class.

A class that doesnt qualify for any means tested benefits, a class that pays substantially in tax, and a class that will never be able to afford to own, as while they have savings IE a deposit, they will never qualify for anything in terms of assistance from the government! But while their outgoings are so stretched they will never be able to save substantially enough to buy a family home.

Ill just explain.

Child care costs now are extortionate

A friend of mines gf works, earns say 1300 pm, will need to pay 800 pm in childcare costs.
Her partner my friend earns good money self employed, but the money is not regular and has peaks and troughs

I feel they are the victims here, they probably have about the same cost left over for THEM after running 2 vehicles, and all associated costs and renting at 700pm as someone, just bumming around on benefits, yet their stress is far higher, and they have NO secure housing, the landlord could turf them out with a months notice.

Yet their income is quite high... and they work so hard.

I feel they have been left to fall by the wayside!

SingleSue

We got around the childcare issue (and cost!) by doing opposite hours. He worked during the day so I was around to look after the children and then when he came home, I went out to work in the evening.

So, all our money went for us instead of paying huge childcare bills...plus enabled me to actually work as we couldn't find childcare.

shortchanged_2

SingleSue wrote: »

We got around the childcare issue (and cost!) by doing opposite hours. He worked during the day so I was around to look after the children and then when he came home, I went out to work in the evening.

So, all our money went for us instead of paying huge childcare bills...plus enabled me to actually work as we couldn't find childcare.

We do something similar to you SingleSue, although this isn't possible for everyone because it depends on what jobs you do.

SingleSue

Very true, it took some organisation I can tell you!

He worked a shift system of sorts and when he was on his late shift, we were like ships passing in the night, with me waiting by the door for his car to pull up, so I could get out to work.

We both worked in offices, I was lucky in that one of the shipping companies decided to trial night work to save stress on the day staff who were having to do umpteem hours of overtime and the work still not being kept up, thus a stressed workforce and time being taken off for stress illnesses.

It worked a treat, the day staff were more relaxed, the sick days were fewer and it gave those of us mums (and one dad), or those looking for an extra income on top of full time work, a chance to carry on in the careers we had done before.

It also had the added bonus in that we could double up in daytime hours as well, as and when children allowed...so extra money!

Percy1983

I will say I can see this huge problem as it does seem the rewards for doing nothing can be as big as the rewards for working hard.

It does concern me how child care will work as I am an accountant and my other half is a teaching assistant. Luckily her hours will usually fit quite well with children but as you can guess none of us can convert to nights.

With that we are doing this so we can buy a home ourselves, to which nobody can kick us out (generally). I think our joint income is enough for us to see reward over benefits but I can guess that many on lower incomes will seem like they are wasting there time.

shortchanged_2

I do agree that child care costs are a real killer for many lower/middle income hard working families these days and can often be a deterrent to work, in that many people realise they are not much better off working after paying for childcare.

ILW

It is what Gordon Brown wanted, or he was just too dim to realise that it was what would happen.

michaels

What is the minimum childcare could cost? Suppose a child minder only costs in their labour, that would be £8ph - how many kids per carer makes sense - 2? if they are doing it for say 9 hours per day (bound to be longer than working hours as the customer also has commute time on top of their work time) so the carer would want to charge at least £4 per hour which of course comes out of net salary (mostly - not sure what the latest on vouchers/tax credits is) but basically each child that needs looking after creates at least half a job and thus the economics of both parents working is only going to make sense when both earn considerably more than minimum wage. But then with a single earner only it is very hard to be better off than on benefits...

Working different shifts may bring in the cash without the childcare expense but it may not be ideal for marital stability?

Batchy

Hi Guys,

True, there are work arounds like with my gf, her mom helps significantly and also we work opposite shifts, but it doesnt necessarily make for happy families.

My gf works in a childrens home, and can work nights and do all weekend. So we have a small issue with it. I work normal office hours

Please dont bite my head off for bringing this up, but the reason we had increasing house prices in my opinion was becuase of dual income families, and the strive for financial independance of the lady in the home, and to develop their career.

I think we are now seeing a reverse. IMO.

We will see more stay at home moms, or dads.

SingleSue

michaels wrote: »

Working different shifts may bring in the cash without the childcare expense but it may not be ideal for marital stability?

Well, I am now divorced :rotfl:

Mind you, think it would have happened earlier if I HADN'T been working. It was only the space created between the two of us by us working opposite shifts which kept the problems away and only became apparent when I was off work sick with my breakdown (no benefits claimed at that time I hasten to add!)

Batchy

SingleSue wrote: »

Well, I am now divorced :rotfl:

Mind you, think it would have happened earlier if I HADN'T been working. It was only the space created between the two of us by us working opposite shifts which kept the problems away and only became apparent when I was off work sick with my breakdown (no benefits claimed at that time I hasten to add!)

I think having your own time can actually help and be healthy, rather than living in each others pockets, but it can delay knowledge of a problem as well.

I think the knock on effect of more stay at home parents will be a return to norms in terms of one income paying the bills. One income/ One car families. Therefore having less disposable for ridiculous mortgage multiples, that have no long term viability.