Ground Source Heat Pumps

Cardew

lostinrates wrote: »

It's not tiny. But its not a mansion.

Its a farmhouse. Its not a particularly large farmhouse, like a manor farm house for example. Its not however, a small cottage on a farm. I don't really know what to say. I've never pretended its tiny or going to be easy to heat. I have a long thread about my heating problems, and I have said its not a small house, but neither is it accurate for me to portray it as a mansion!

Its....just a farmhouse. Not the grandest nor biggest in my parish, by far.

However, I have lived in a pied a terre about a third of the size of my kitchen.

So.....makes the ashp quote look better to you then?

The first thing is to find out is if the property is suitable for a Heat pump. All of the advice is to ensure it has the necessary insulation etc.


An old 5,000+sqft farmhouse is not the obvious candidate.


Get several estimates and try to pin a firm down to some written guarantees of performance.

lostinrates

lovesgshp wrote: »

Arggh. Borehole!!! That is the most expensive way ever. You could get the cost down from that another way. These are called compact collectors, which use less ground area than a conventional system. Cost is higher, but less than the borehole solution.
Sorry, I have not got a English version, of the link, but hopefully you will be able to understand what is described. If you run the text through a online translator, then it will give you the basics of what I am describing.
http://www.geotherm.it/Scambiatori_geotermici_compatti.html

The Italian is good for me, and better for mio marito, grazie!

lostinrates

Cardew wrote: »

The first thing is to find out is if the property is suitable for a Heat pump. All of the advice is to ensure it has the necessary insulation etc.


An old 5,000+sqft farmhouse is not the obvious candidate.


Get several estimates and try to pin a firm down to some written guarantees of performance.

We have done all of this and been told repeatedly it isn't and then that it is, Its very confusing. The situation we have is that the planners don't really want us to have LPG or oil (and nor do we) and so we have to have something. We were about to just put oil back in, but then these ashp options seem not that much more outlay, keep planners happy, resolve the 'oil' issue and we can, in future feed pv into the system.


These daiken units seem to be the best candidate as far as air source goes. I don't really get the mechanics of why.


Tbh, I'm just a bit fed up of heating solutions. We've been going around in circles for years on this now, in the cold. Though an MCs refered to nic whoever it is mediation thing, then to court, then the bailiffs had to take it to high court and now cannot recover any money to the previous heating people. I want a hot bath and for this to be in the past frankly!

lovesgshp

fluffymuffy wrote: »

Crazy Prices !

I just put my data in - house age/size etc and it told me ....
- a ground source heat pump installation would cost £72,109.51

- an Air Source heat pump would cost £18,776.16

I've just installed my own for £580. OK it's only 5.2kw. Perhaps the one quoted has a higher output. I could install 4 for £2K. That would be warm enough to compare.

Think their calculator has done a wobbly, if you try to go too high and with a borehole as well. They should get a bit more professional if they want to get contracts!! 87K for a 200 m2 house on 2 floors with double glazing and a borehole......... :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Either that, or they are "Dell Boy" in disguise

Cardew

Originally Posted by Cardew
The first thing is to find out is if the property is suitable for a Heat pump. All of the advice is to ensure it has the necessary insulation etc.


An old 5,000+sqft farmhouse is not the obvious candidate.


Get several estimates and try to pin a firm down to some written guarantees of performance.

lostinrates wrote: »

We have done all of this and been told repeatedly it isn't and then that it is, Its very confusing. The situation we have is that the planners don't really want us to have LPG or oil (and nor do we) and so we have to have something.

Well if you have been told repeatedly your house isn't suitable I would be very wary.


The problem is that rather than lose a sale, some firms will install in any dwelling. Unless you can get some guarantee of performance, you are just taking a gamble with £20,000.


Why are the planners not keen on oil? Why are 2 ASHP units outside your house better than a oil tank? At least with the latter you can camouflage it with plants.


Even if you have the oil boiler outside it won't be any noisier than two ASHP units - probably quieter.


I would see if you can get the proposed ASHP manufacturing firm involved.

lostinrates

Cardew wrote: »

Originally Posted by Cardew
The first thing is to find out is if the property is suitable for a Heat pump. All of the advice is to ensure it has the necessary insulation etc.


An old 5,000+sqft farmhouse is not the obvious candidate.


Get several estimates and try to pin a firm down to some written guarantees of performance.







Well if you have been told repeatedly your house isn't suitable I would be very wary.


The problem is that rather than lose a sale, some firms will install in any dwelling. Unless you can get some guarantee of performance, you are just taking a gamble with £20,000.


Why are the planners not keen on oil? Why are 2 ASHP units outside your house better than a oil tank? At least with the latter you can camouflage it with plants.


Even if you have the oil boiler outside it won't be any noisier than two ASHP units - probably quieter.


I would see if you can get the proposed ASHP manufacturing firm involved.

The noise issue is the huge regret for us. They ar enot quiet, and we live so we here where it will only impact us, but, obviously, that means the impact is significant for us. We can place them ( as we would An oily tank) at the least obstructive but I know it will grate.


The planning issue is.....complex. Too much to go into really, they want a renewable source, and as that's what everything is shifting to it makes sense, I see their point.


Heating engineers never say the same thing. Often the same one says several different things. What I have learned is that there is no one solution it seems. Though there are plenty of wrong ones!

I'll look at what we have from them re performance and see if we can tighten up to a written guarantee. Thanks for the advice.

Cardew

lostinrates wrote: »

The planning issue is.....complex. Too much to go into really, they want a renewable source, and as that's what everything is shifting to it makes sense, I see their point.

A Heat Pump doesn't run from a 'renewable source'. It uses mains electricity - albeit less than normal electrical heating.


Even if you have solar PV panels on your roof, they provide relatively little electricity in winter,(when you need heating).


If the council planners want a heat pumps, get them to guarantee, in writing, that your house is suitable; despite the advice to the contrary that you have been given.


I would get your local councillor, or even MP, involved and tell them that you don't want to spend £20,000 on a gamble that a heat pump might, or might not, work.

lovesgshp

Yes, ASHP units are noisier and that is the disadvantage of them. I admit that I would not like a fan droning away outside my house for hours a day in the winter months, or even in the summer, when I am trying to sit out for a few G&Ts in the evening!!!

matelodave

Have you actually heard one, or is it just more hearsay.

Ours doesn't drone in the winter and it only runs for an hour or less in the summer when it's heating water. We can select the time that it does so that it doesn't inconvenience even the most fastidious.
The compressor makes less noise than a domestic fridge or freezer (as its rotary rather than reciprocating) - it doesn't even shudder like a fridge or freezer on start up either as it's driven by a soft start variable speed inverter and the fans are variable speed as well. All you can hear is the air going through it when it on high speed, which is not very often - just like a domestic fan blowing air about indoors.
The burners & combustion fans in condensing boilers make more noise than our outside unit does and it certainly can't beat a pressure jet oil burner for noise. Our washing machine, tumble dryer and dishwasher make more noise than the heating unit;)

lovesgshp

matelodave wrote: »

Have you actually heard one, or is it just more hearsay.

Ours doesn't drone in the winter and it only runs for an hour or less in the summer when it's heating water. We can select the time that it does so that it doesn't inconvenience even the most fastidious.
The compressor makes less noise than a domestic fridge or freezer (as its rotary rather than reciprocating) - it doesn't even shudder like a fridge or freezer on start up either as it's driven by a soft start variable speed inverter and the fans are variable speed as well. All you can hear is the air going through it when it on high speed, which is not very often - just like a domestic fan blowing air about indoors.
The burners & combustion fans in condensing boilers make more noise than our outside unit does and it certainly can't beat a pressure jet oil burner for noise. Our washing machine, tumble dryer and dishwasher make more noise than the heating unit;)

Ok I bow to your superior knowledge, but we have been installing heat pumps only for about 13 years, so I suppose that can be called hearsay.
Just to give you some idea as regarding "soft start" , compressor noise etc.
Soft start, is a system to bring a single phase operating pump into use to smooth out the high current required on initial kick in of the system. It is not used on 3 phase systems.
Compressor noise: This should be close to a refrigerator/freezer system, whether a ASHP or GSHP.
DBa: A GSHP will normally operate around 30-40 depending on the size of the unit, as is only a compressor operating, so yes like above.
DBa: Air source, operates around 45-60, again dependent on unit size.
Just to simplify things further in relation to a ASHP regarding noise. If you have a computer with a fan, as normal, then after a while the fan gets noisier, as dirt sticks to it and the blades go out of balance, the same thing that can happen to a ASHP.

Noise levels: http://wordinfo.info/unit/620/ip:1/il:D