Ground Source Heat Pumps

nosha123

I made mistake there is no 7.5. Only goes up to 7.3.
5.2 shows
1/3. 2/3. 3/3
With arrow pointing at the 2/3

nosha123

As for being fined!!! Unit flooded floor with glycol and engineer was giving instructions over phone what to do til he could get there 3 days later! So we were not left with no heating etc. Husband mistakenly released some gas. Engineer then never filed report. No one turned up to fix and unit flooded again!!!
Grrrrr

thechippy

nosha123 wrote: »

As for being fined!!! Unit flooded floor with glycol and engineer was giving instructions over phone what to do til he could get there 3 days later! So we were not left with no heating etc. Husband mistakenly released some gas. Engineer then never filed report. No one turned up to fix and unit flooded again!!!
Grrrrr

Not having a go, just making you aware....;)

.......and it might be worth trying to answer the question in post #88

lovesgshp

nosha123 wrote: »

I made mistake there is no 7.5. Only goes up to 7.3.
Cannot understand why no 7.4 as that gives % DHW/Heating, as 7.2 does.
5.2 shows
1/3. 2/3. 3/3
With arrow pointing at the 2/3

So the immersion is set @ 6Kw, therefore the 410hrs relates to 2460kw use.

I seriously suggest that you contact Ice Energy and get an engineer out to sort this problem.
With the ground loops running under 1C in, the additional heat is cutting in probably 1hr after the compressor has started.
It is possible that the unit because of your previous indoor settings of 21/22C stepped up into the 3kw input mode, thereby increasing consumption further.
Also, try and obtain from them the thermal analysis or your property from which they sized the pump.
Give them the running hours of the unit for both the compressor and electrical backup.

paceinternet

nosha.
I would sort the gas issue out first so that it is removed from any possibility of contributing to the problem.
Check your documentatiion and terms with Ice, but most local refrigeration engineers should be able to sort the gas issue. Try local YELL etc.
Docs I have seen for the model HT Plus C/E11 indicate Refrigerant R-407C, 1.9kg.

Did you confirm the ground loop flow was ok?

And do as geotherm says and get to the bottom of why this size was selected.

nosha123

Gosh so many questions to answer... OK...
Post #88.. Do you know how much refrigerant was released?
Urm no.... I dont... a fair amount from what I understand. It happened back in Dec.. just after Xmas when we were trying to solve the leaky problem.

Post #95 Thermal Analysis... I dont have one from Ice Energy... but can ask for their calcs when sizing the pump for our house (based on the architect drawings). I do have a SAP and Energy Efficiency report from NHBC. Would that help?

I have given Ice Energy the compressor hours and the electrical hours and just got fobbed off with. "oh its a new build.. did you know that the plaster will still have a lot of water in it". My response.. "no actually you are wrong the plastering was finished a year ago!! SO no there is not a lot of moisture in the house!". Then got fobbed off with Oh well those figures look normal as the unit was commissioned in September." My response "well the electric meter was fitted on Dec 1st so that is TWO months usage at 7113kWh". Then he used the excuse of the refrigerant being let out as the main cause!. I asked if we had the gas topped back up would we notice a significant drop in the Electric bill - he said not a lot but a bit.!!

Will email them asking for thermal calcs.

Here are last nights readings...

Our Electric meter reading on Sunday night was 7113 and last night at 7pm was 7379kWh. Which calculates to 89kWh per day (or £7.12 per day on our tariff = £220 per month) still sounds very high to me!!! Considering Ice Energy 'estimated' our heating and HW to only cost £70 per month.

So.. readings...
7.1 1981h
7.2 18% DHW 82% RAD
7.3 410h

2.1 Duration of HW (display looked like this)... 0h 0h 48h
2.2 Internal for HW Peak. Bar was 3/4 full and had this in brackets underneath... (SU)
2.3 Setting of temp 54º

GT1 35.3 off 33.8 now
GT2 our 9.1º
GT3 tgt 51 now 49.6
GT4 (dont have this option on our menu)
GT5 21 now 20
GT6 76.4º
GT8 39.4º
GT9 32.6º
GT10 -0.3
GT12 -3.5

Not found any flow valves on the collectors yet! Will have another look at the weekend! Think thats a mans job that one!!

paceinternet

Well that is interesting because you don't seem to have used the 7.3 "additional heat" during those days. Still 410h.
So in the current conditions it is providing all HW and CH ok just with the compressor?

lovesgshp

nosha123 wrote: »

Gosh so many questions to answer... OK...
Post #88.. Do you know how much refrigerant was released?
Urm no.... I dont... a fair amount from what I understand. It happened back in Dec.. just after Xmas when we were trying to solve the leaky problem.
Suggest you get it refilled if a fair amount was lost

Post #95 Thermal Analysis... I dont have one from Ice Energy... but can ask for their calcs when sizing the pump for our house (based on the architect drawings).Would suggest you try and get their data. I do have a SAP and Energy Efficiency report from NHBC. Would that help?

I have given Ice Energy the compressor hours and the electrical hours and just got fobbed off with. "oh its a new build.. did you know that the plaster will still have a lot of water in it". My response.. "no actually you are wrong the plastering was finished a year ago!! SO no there is not a lot of moisture in the house!". Then got fobbed off with Oh well those figures look normal as the unit was commissioned in September." My response "well the electric meter was fitted on Dec 1st so that is TWO months usage at 7113kWh".Was the unit not running after being commissioned until 1st Dec? Then he used the excuse of the refrigerant being let out as the main cause!. I asked if we had the gas topped back up would we notice a significant drop in the Electric bill - he said not a lot but a bit.!!

Will email them asking for thermal calcs.

Here are last nights readings...

Our Electric meter reading on Sunday night was 7113 and last night at 7pm was 7379kWh. Which calculates to 89kWh per day (or £7.12 per day on our tariff = £220 per month) still sounds very high to me!!! Considering Ice Energy 'estimated' our heating and HW to only cost £70 per month.
Is the meter for the whole house, or just the pump?

So.. readings...
7.1 1981h 16hrs from the figures yesterday a.m= approx 35Kw usage, plus circulating pumps. Here from Mon a.m to today a.m, mine has run for about 14 hours daily, with internal temp @ 20C.
7.2 18% DHW 82% RAD
7.3 410h No change

2.1 Duration of HW (display looked like this)... 0h 0h 48h ok
2.2 Internal for HW Peak. Bar was 3/4 full and had this in brackets underneath... (SU) Looks like every 20 days, you could change to max (30 days)
2.3 Setting of temp 54º That is only the max on normal operation. Yours is set at 51C on GT3

GT1 35.3 off 33.8 now
GT2 our 9.1º
GT3 tgt 51 now 49.6
GT4 (dont have this option on our menu)
GT5 21 now 20 Believe earlier you said you had changed this to 19.5
"Room temps are now all set lower - and operating at about 19.5º. "
GT6 76.4º
GT8 39.4º
GT9 32.6º
GT10 -0.3
GT12 -3.5

Not found any flow valves on the collectors yet! Will have another look at the weekend! Think thats a mans job that one!!

They should be on the inlet line from the ground loop, normally just under the collector.

lovesgshp

paceinternet wrote: »

Well that is interesting because you don't seem to have used the 7.3 "additional heat" during those days. Still 410h.
So in the current conditions it is providing all HW and CH ok just with the compressor?

Does seem to be that way

nosha123

I have a response from Ice Energy re thermal wotsits....

"At the time of quoting your project we worked with building regulation standards which suggests circa 40-45w/m per sqm. Given the work that you had done on insulation which was to my knowledge slightly better than building regs we applied 44w/m x 350sqm which resulted in our heat load of 15.4kW.
The 15.4kW is what the property would require at times of peak demand and to accommodate for the difference customers would use some of the electric immersion to make this up.
I don't think there is a sizing issue but would say that given the adverse conditions this year and the potential 'drying out' process this could mean that the peak demand is being called for slightly more than usual."

Am also going to take regular readings from the Electric meter to see if our usage slows down - we are also going to have a fiddle with some settings again and drop them down a bit more... The temp adjustments done so far were all on the individual room stats not on the pump itself. So will look into that too.

In answer to 2 Q's above

Pump was commissioned in Sept. Shut it down for a few weeks as house was too hot for the builders. New meter fitted into house Dec 1st. We moved in Dec 1st also. So only been living in since then - along with the new meter.

Meter is for whole house - which yes is big.. but only 2 of us there and we dont exactly have all the lights on in all the rooms all the time!! I only use the Tumble Drier twice a month!!!!