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Speed awareness course - or not?
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Invalidation wrote: »Im 60 and have been driving since the day I turned 16. I have never ever had any convictions or accidents for driving untill the idiots began their money making scams.
If you've been driving since the day you turned 16 have you sat a test?
Keen photographer with sales in the UK and abroad.
Willing to offer advice on camera equipment and photography if i can!0 -
Invalidation wrote: »The second case was when I was overtaking some old fart crawling along. I broke the speed limit whilst overtaking..........shoot me!
Im 60 and have been driving since the day I turned 16.
What chance have the rest of us got?
One old fart crawling along, the one next to him speeding in built up areas for 44 years!0 -
Invalidation wrote: »You learned something? They dont tell you anything that you shouldnt already have known as a driver.The greater danger, for most of us, lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low and achieving our mark0
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Invalidation wrote: »But I havent got nine points. People were making the point that an SP30 Increases the Insurance premium when in mine and others cases it didnt.
You 'suspect' wrongly
You have missed my point totally. You have stated that you have 6 points and that you have also done a speed awareness course. If you had not gone on the course you would have 9 points and that most definitely would have affected your premiums, therefore doing the course was worthwhile for you, regardless of what you think of it's contents.
As for the circumstances of you tickets I actually agree with you as I am no fan of the way speed enforcement is carried out.
Doing someone immediately after a speed limit change is a particular bug bear of mine because prior to the days of camera mania the guidelines for positioning speed limits recommended a "buffer zone" between the new lower limit and the area where you actually want people to slow down. A typical example would be to put the 30 signs half a mile away from the village limits. This guidance stems back to the days when the speed signs were guidance to drivers rather than actual law.
Nowadays the buffer zone remains but it has legal significance so you're required to do 30 even though you're still half a mile away from the village, and of course they enforce the buffer zones not the actual village where children and/or old people may be crossing the road.
A small number of places have got the limit close to the hazard and 3 100 yard markers warning of the new limit, immediately followed by a camera and I have no particular problem with this arrangement.
Overtaking, again it used to be legal, and recommended, to exceed the limit by 10-20 mph when overtaking so as to reduce the time spent on the wrong side of the road, something more dangerous than speeding. I'm sure plenty of people here would love it if lorries had a temporary limiter override button to allow faster overtaking on motorways.LandyAndy wrote:Indeed, you were so confident you challenged it in court...Oh, you didn't did you
The system is set up to discourage all but the richest from challenging it in court. The police and CPS use companies like RSS (run by a former safety camera partnership manager who is also involved with ACPO) as expert witnesses, and their fees which are added to the court costs can easily run into 5 digits. this plus the general opinion of magistrates courts being one of pot luck as to which side of bed the magistrate got out of that morning (and many magistrates courts are actually members of camera partnerships, so their partiality is questionable) turns attempting to defend a speeding accusation into a matter of risk/reward rather than a matter of justice. I would have taken the speed awareness course too. I can't afford to mount a defence.
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Doing someone immediately after a speed limit change is a particular bug bear of mine because prior to the days of camera mania the guidelines for positioning speed limits recommended a "buffer zone" between the new lower limit and the area where you actually want people to slow down. A typical example would be to put the 30 signs half a mile away from the village limits. This guidance stems back to the days when the speed signs were guidance to drivers rather than actual law.
Nowadays the buffer zone remains but it has legal significance so you're required to do 30 even though you're still half a mile away from the village, and of course they enforce the buffer zones not the actual village where children and/or old people may be crossing the road.
Overtaking, again it used to be legal, and recommended, to exceed the limit by 10-20 mph when overtaking so as to reduce the time spent on the wrong side of the road, something more dangerous than speeding. I'm sure plenty of people here would love it if lorries had a temporary limiter override button to allow faster overtaking on motorways.
I passed my test a long time ago, and I never remember being taught the speed limits had buffer zones and where for guidance only, or it being recommended to overtake at 50 in a 30 limit.
If you see a sign, that's the maximum speed from there on.
edit - I don't fancy having a truck 2 inches from my boot on the motorway, trying to do 90mph really, overtaking his mate that'll return the compliment in a few minutes time leapfrogging down the motorway.0 -
I'm talking about the 30s here when the only legal limits were built up area: 30 everywhere else: derestricted and you had to judge which type you were in by the presence or absence of lampposts and buildings.
For the overtaking, I was talking about NSL roads, not 30mph towns, that's just being pedantic.
Remember that derestricted was only changed to NSL because of the 70s fuel crisis, not because of safety concerns.
I'm also talking about the recommendations in the earlier editions of Roadcraft (which the IAM system is based on) not the recommendations for the basic driving test.0 -
That and the fact the bloke with the red flag was having to jog, rather than walking.0
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Overtaking, again it used to be legal, and recommended, to exceed the limit by 10-20 mph when overtaking so as to reduce the time spent on the wrong side of the road, something more dangerous than speeding. I'm sure plenty of people here would love it if lorries had a temporary limiter override button to allow faster overtaking on motorways.
Utter twaddle.0 -
Roadcraft never has had any legal standing.
No, but the edition I was talking about was published when speed signs had no legal standing either, there was just 30 and derestricted.
So you're in an advisory 60, stuck behind someone doing 50 it would have been legal to overtake them at 70 and Roadcraft recommended doing so.0
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