Unfit property (so cold) my rights

princeofpounds

they were working it contrary to manufacturers guidelines as stated by themselves, after telling us the opposite initially.

What are the supposed to have been doing to it? I don't know of single decent boiler that can be brought to its knees simply by use, even if that use is somewhat inconsiderate.

Anyway, to back up the others you have no legal obligation to offer compensation, but a month in the coldest winter for years without heating is pretty tough and as a consumer would leave me quite dissatisfied.

I'm a tenant, and in my mind it would be reasonable to take one of two approaches - I would either:

- tot up what the cost would have been for two electric fan heaters and the electricity to run them, the logic being that this would have been as good a temporary solution to the problem as any.

- or offer a token one week of rent as goodwill (not compensation, which implies you are at fault). The logic being that 2 weeks might have been a more reasonable timeframe for the attempted repair and then replacement, but that there was still the use of a property, even if impaired, so split the 'excess' time in half.

Those figures, depending on the property, are probably somewhere in the same ballpark.

No rent for the whole period though is a cheeky request.

mar<

Thanks for your input tbs624

tbs624 wrote: »

Not sure whether I am misinterpreting this but... randomly, with a heating system you believe to be in perfect working order, you ask your Ts several times if they are having problems with the heating, *before* it actually breaks down?

Yes we did.

tbs624 wrote: »

Had you supplied them with an instruction booklet/clear written instructions on how the boiler controls should be used?

Yes. And we talked them thoroughly through operation. They said they were happy that they understood, and then when we asked them afterwards they said they had it working perfectly. This was untrue.

tbs624 wrote: »

As a LL, you have very strict statutory obligations to *maintain* the heating system in safe working order and it's therefore advisable to have a "tame" reliable plumber or sign yourself up to a service & maint contract ( the costs of this can be set down on your tax return). If you don't then you may find you need to budget for the more expensive "emergency" plumber rates in order to get repairs effected within a "reasonable" time frame

We realise our obligation, which is why we acted very urgently. We're new landlords, and hadn't found a plumber yet. We have now. Thanks for that tip, we'll see if we can sign him up.

tbs624 wrote: »

You did the right thing by offering alternative sources of heat but it may be that your T was concerned by the potential increase in electricity bills. The fact remains that your T was, by your own admission, left without the usual whole house heating system for a month

Not quite. It was their choice to limit the heating. We offered whole house heating. If the tenant declines, is that our fault? They chose to have electric backup heating in the lounge and asked us to remove the working gas fire.

tbs624 wrote: »

It is not relevant to your own T how you and your own LL chose to deal with that instance

No but someone asked how we would feel in the same situation.

tbs624 wrote: »

Did you try to get an alternative plumber?

Yes! And we secured the services of one the very same day. He went straight around, turned on the gas and ordered the parts.

tbs624 wrote: »

Negotiate with your Ts. They pay to rent a property with working whole house heating and, for whatever reason, you have been unable to provide that for a month.

Incorrect. We provided heating. Just more expensive to run heating.

JPS29

mar< wrote: »

We did everything we could to speed resolution. This wasn't a case of the building being uninhabitable as in JPS29's case - where he had free reign to get work done. Our contractor had to arrange everything at the tenants convenience. So I don't see what moral compunction applies from what you've said.

Hi Mar.

The building wasn't uninhabitable due to the flood. Once the water was cleared up and the carpets ripped up along with the supply turned off the house was habitable, just no water supply. This was for a day. The plumber was there the next day to sort the burst pipe and reinstate the supply. The carpet was fitted the next day. I too had to work around my T but I made sure I went above and beyond, and also have my own set of keys to use "with the T's permission" to accompany the tradesmen as and when they turned up if he wasn't there.It would be unreasonable of the tenat to complain about the amount of time taken to remedy the situation if you could have sorted it earlier with your own access.

another poster mentioned 2 weeks rent rebate/compo call it what you will. As a L myself I would agree to this amount but agree that a month is taking the pi$$.

Please dont take my initial post as having a go, it wasn't. Things like this (and mine) are just a (expensive) learning curve to all LL's and if we learn from them at least its a good thing. I bet if you had a boiler break down next year it wouldnt take a month to sort now.

All the best

olly300

mar< I think the tenants are being cheeky if you offered them alternative heating for each room with a radiator in it and they refused.

Yes there would have been an issue with the increase in electricity bill but you would have fulfilled your legal duty to provide them with heating, and you could have discussed paying the bills later as the most important thing is to keep your tenants warm.

I've lived in rented accommodation twice where the boiler broke down both on a weekend in winter - both landlords had a reliable plumber they used.

First time it broke on Sunday and was fixed on the Monday.

The next time it broke on a Saturday afternoon and the plumber came out in the evening. It was fixed within 4 days but the plumber warned me it would take 7 days to get the part.

Both times I had the choice of either arranging to be in which was quicker, or the landlord being there which would have taken longer.

If you don't have a plumber who can come out within 24 hours to sort out problems with heating and drains then you need to sort something out immediately. Yes it will be expensive getting a plumber on weekends but that's what you have to do if the temperature is low, or the toilet is blocked.

While you have to work around tenants you will find people are more receptive to getting an issue sorted if you act quickly yourself.

I would give them a week's rent as a good will payment but I would give it to them as a cheque rather than allowing them to take it off the rent.

mar<

Thanks very much for your opinion PoP

princeofpounds wrote: »

Anyway, to back up the others you have no legal obligation to offer compensation, but a month in the coldest winter for years without heating is pretty tough and as a consumer would leave me quite dissatisfied.

They chose to limit the heating themselves. There was no need for the place to be colder at all.

princeofpounds wrote: »

- tot up what the cost would have been for two electric fan heaters and the electricity to run them, the logic being that this would have been as good a temporary solution to the problem as any.

We also offered oil filled radiators. Cheaper to run and safe to leave on a low setting whilst you're out. Our local toddler group uses a large double portacabin that is heated using this method, costing £80 a month in electricity.

princeofpounds wrote: »

- or offer a token one week of rent as goodwill (not compensation, which implies you are at fault). The logic being that 2 weeks might have been a more reasonable timeframe for the attempted repair and then replacement, but that there was still the use of a property, even if impaired, so split the 'excess' time in half.

We didn't leave them without heating, and moved as quickly as we possibly could. The plumber worked on bank holidays and weekends to get it done. The tenant chose to have electric backup heating in the lounge rather than gas. It was their choice to have expensive alternate heating there.
A reasonable time frame would be one in which we acted as promptly as humanly possible, and that we did.

princeofpounds wrote: »

Those figures, depending on the property, are probably somewhere in the same ballpark.

It's a small, modern, well insulated and double glazed bungalow. It costs a lot less than a draughty old portacabin to heat.

mar<

JPS29 wrote: »

I bet if you had a boiler break down next year it wouldnt take a month to sort now.

No it wouldn't - but now we have a guaranteed boiler fitted with easily obtainable parts and a plumber who knows it inside out.

Yes we couldn't believe the length of time it took - it's been a nightmare from the beginning. But we honestly couldn't have moved faster than we did. I don't think a magistrate could find us to be lapse.

JPS29

Mar theres a few ways this could go.

You seem reluctant to pay any compenastion/goodwill payment/allowance, is that right?

You could stand your ground and hope that the T just takes this on the chin. They might, but the fact that they raised the question in the first place makes me think they might not.

Your relationship with them might breakdown as a result of this causing/prompting them to vacate and find an alternative let.
Do you have another tenant ready to move in?
If not can you afford the rental voids whilst empty?
Can you stomach the costs of top to toe clean and replacing any wear and tear issues?

If you are comfortable with the above then by all means stand your ground, but I think you need to give a little to save a lot.

And anyone, be it a magistrate or not would think that a month to get this resolved is excessive.

dizziblonde

tbs624 wrote: »

It's funny that, isn't it? Some of my kids have been observed actually switching things off when they leave a room, now that they are in their own homes...;)

My parents on the other hand - still flipping don't! They complain about the electric bill, then when they go out my mum leaves the telly on to "keep the house company" - grr!

Sash windows and nice sanded floorboards are unfortunately crap in terms of staying warm. Get some rugs down to minimize the effect of gaps between floorboards (since there's naff all you can really do if you're renting) and some nice thick curtains and it should knock it down a bit.

I do sympathise - I've just moved from a rental where I was so cold I was shivering by 10am after the heating went off at 8, to a bought house (which is identical in construction) where it actually seems to keep the heat in much better... and I hate being cold.

mar<

Hmmm good point JPS29. We feel pretty aggrieved at the attitude we're getting but maybe it really isn't worth all that. Thanks very much for that.

JPS29

No problem.

Have a look at my thread over the burst pipe.

This was actually the tenants fault/negligence but I know it would cost me more if I would not have paid the money myself as he would have prob left and left me with the headache and expense.

Black and white isn't always the best route when it comes to dealing with hiccups/problems with tenants (whilst still conforming to all laws, obligations etc)

Tis a pain in the arrse especially at this time of year too but sometimes you just have to take it on the chin. Fingers crossed once you agree to an amount they will be long staying tenants, who turn your loss into a profit and all ends well.

Best Wishes