Unfit property (so cold) my rights

surreybased

mar< wrote: »

We just had our tenants heating break down, and they've been without heating for a month. We've tried our hardest to get it reinstated asap, in the end opting to replace the 4yr old boiler. All working fine now and tenant happy with it.

Tenant is asking for compensation now. What should we do?

I think its fair to compensate your tenants - a month without heating isn't satisfactory and there must have major inconveniance and additional costs. Just reverse the situation - if it had happened to you how would you have wanted to be treated?
Being a LL is a business - a business pays out when clients don't get what they expect

Ypres

Unfortunately it is a fact of life with older properties. If you have a cold house, the best thing to do is do not heat all of it, concetrate on keeping the area you are using warm.

I have to say though, from reading a few threads I can see most of us were not brought up with the modern expectation of a house that resembles the carribean without the sand all throughout the year.

Its a common complaint, and at the end of the day if the property has an EPC,Has fixed heating and it is all working correctly there is very little that can be said towards the LL.

The truth in most cases is that alot of people want to be warm, but dont like paying for it.

tbs624

olly300 wrote: »

Start a new thread and ask the question.

It's a tech issue with the Forum that you can't access the "new thread" button from within a thread, having to go back to the main HBR&S board to do so.

If the MSE website gurus could address that we'd probably have far fewer jumbled threads with more than one query in them.

JPS29

mar< wrote: »

We just had our tenants heating break down, and they've been without heating for a month. We've tried our hardest to get it reinstated asap, in the end opting to replace the 4yr old boiler. All working fine now and tenant happy with it.

Tenant is asking for compensation now. What should we do?

Instead of what should we do I think it's more a case of what should you "have" done.

A month without heating is totally unacceptable. I've just moved mountains to get a flood damaged property restored to its former glory in a few days, this was over the xmas period and bank holidays included in this.

Why did it take a month? If it was in your own property would you have done anything different?

As for damage limitation I would sit down with the T and ask them what sort of compensation they were after. A rent free period/compensation can always be written off against tax and if not han dled properly you run the risk of rental voids when your T leaves. Also maybe better to have contingency plans for when things go wrong in future.

A list of reliable tradesmen and suppliers is a must.

mar<

Thanks for your input guys. Apologies for not starting a new thread.

The main reason for the boiler failure was the tenant not informing us that they were having problems, despite our asking a few times prior to this breakdown. We're sure the way they were working it caused the boiler to fail. We couldn't get a plumber easily - it was the first cold snap. We did manage to get one in the end (within a day) but attempting to repair the old one caused delays, so we decided to cut our losses and replace. The tenant elected to remove the supplied gas fire in favour of electric, and they still had electric cooking and hot water. If the gas fire had still been there, they'd have been without heat for about 3 days. We were pushing and chasing all the time to get this done as quickly as possible believe me.

The plumbing firm that disconnected the gas let us down by not being able to even look at it for two weeks. They did however offer backup appliances as did we immediately after we heard. The tenant declined both offers.

We were in the exact same position a few years ago. The rented property we were in had the chimney condemned on Christmas Eve, and we had no heating for a month. Snow outside and very cold. We provided our own backup heating and looked for no compensation for that from the landlord.

The tenant has asked for a month free. Interesting you say we can claim tax, but this is our first half year of letting, so we have nothing to claim against. Especially with all the outgoings so far - we've made nothing!

clutton_2

""you say we can claim tax, but this is our first half year of letting, so we have nothing to claim against. Especially with all the outgoings so far - we've made nothing! "

but you can carry forward your losses against future years profits - if any

FATBALLZ

mar< wrote: »

. We're sure the way they were working it caused the boiler to fail.

Why, were they covering it in petrol and putting a match to it? I had a landlord who started assuming the reason all his appliances kept breaking was because we were doing something to them - he couldn't accept they broke because they were mostly crap. Not nice to put up with as a tenant.

As for compensation, a month without a boiler is a joke, and shows poor preparation on your part. Morally you should at least offer them something.

mar<

Great thanks Clutton.

No FB they were working it contrary to manufacturers guidelines as stated by themselves, after telling us the opposite initially. The boiler was 4 years old and had always worked perfectly for us. It was installed for a private owner and never faltered. What preparation should we have done? If the tenant had told us the truth we could have been prepared. We certainly would have had their 'issue' investigated to save us the small fortune in replacement costs. The length of time to repair was due to unavoidable delays. We did everything we could to speed resolution. This wasn't a case of the building being uninhabitable as in JPS29's case - where he had free reign to get work done. Our contractor had to arrange everything at the tenants convenience. So I don't see what moral compunction applies from what you've said.

clutton_2

i would be interested in tenants views here as to how much compensation they would claim in these circumstances ? Normally compo is only claimed if there is a financial loss... and since no gas bills were being accrued during the months repair time, but presumably some extra electric was used i cannot see a huge financial loss here......

if the landlord effected a repair/replacement in a reasonable time considering the circumstances, then i am yet to be convinced that there is a moral issue here for compensation.... as i say - i would welcome tenants views please.

tbs624

mar< wrote: »

The main reason for the boiler failure was the tenant not informing us that they were having problems, despite our asking a few times prior to this breakdown. ..

Not sure whether I am misinterpreting this but... randomly, with a heating system you believe to be in perfect working order, you ask your Ts several times if they are having problems with the heating, *before* it actually breaks down?

mar< wrote: »

We're sure the way they were working it caused the boiler to fail.

Had you supplied them with an instruction booklet/clear written instructions on how the boiler controls should be used?

mar< wrote: »

We couldn't get a plumber easily - it was the first cold snap. We did manage to get one in the end (within a day) but attempting to repair the old one caused delays, so we decided to cut our losses and replace.

The tenant elected to remove the supplied gas fire in favour of electric, and they still had electric cooking and hot water. If the gas fire had still been there, they'd have been without heat for about 3 days. We were pushing and chasing all the time to get this done as quickly as possible believe me.

The plumbing firm that disconnected the gas let us down by not being able to even look at it for two weeks.

As a LL, you have very strict statutory obligations to *maintain* the heating system in safe working order and it's therefore advisable to have a "tame" reliable plumber or sign yourself up to a service & maint contract ( the costs of this can be set down on your tax return). If you don't then you may find you need to budget for the more expensive "emergency" plumber rates in order to get repairs effected within a "reasonable" time frame

mar< wrote: »

They did however offer backup appliances as did we immediately after we heard. The tenant declined both offers.

You did the right thing by offering alternative sources of heat but it may be that your T was concerned by the potential increase in electricity bills. The fact remains that your T was, by your own admission, left without the usual whole house heating system for a month

mar< wrote: »

We were in the exact same position a few years ago. The rented property we were in had the chimney condemned on Christmas Eve, and we had no heating for a month. Snow outside and very cold. We provided our own backup heating and looked for no compensation for that from the landlord.

It is not relevant to your own T how you and your own LL chose to deal with that instance

mar< wrote: »

The tenant has asked for a month free. Interesting you say we can claim tax, but this is our first half year of letting, so we have nothing to claim against. Especially with all the outgoings so far - we've made nothing!

The T expecting the whole month rent free is pushing it - they still had use of the property, albeit a cold one.

mar< wrote: »

No FB they were working it contrary to manufacturers guidelines as stated by themselves, after telling us the opposite initially. The boiler was 4 years old and had always worked perfectly for us. It was installed for a private owner and never faltered.

Presumably a condensing boiler, a design which seems to be struggling in the very extreme cold snap? ( Many frozen condensate pipes)

mar< wrote: »

The length of time to repair was due to unavoidable delays. We did everything we could to speed resolution.

Did you try to get an alternative plumber?

mar< wrote: »

This wasn't a case of the building being uninhabitable as in JPS29's case - where he had free reign to get work done. Our contractor had to arrange everything at the tenants convenience. .

A contractor always has to work around the occupants of a property, be they OOs or Ts.

Negotiate with your Ts. They pay to rent a property with working whole house heating and, for whatever reason, you have been unable to provide that for a month.

Cue now for several posts of the "ee, when we were kids, we ate ice off the windows for breakfast and never complained......." variety