what sort of government uses water cannon on protestors?

mbga9pgf

ninky wrote: »

a deeply unpopular one perhaps?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/12/13/theresa-may-gives-police-green-light-to-use-water-cannon-against-protesters-115875-22780038/

If I had my way, they would be using rubber bullets.

With D Cell batteries replacing the rubber.

Or frozen paintballs.

THE_GHOULISH_CODPIECE

Yeah best not have the proles stepping out of line or standing up to lies and corruption.

mbga9pgf

Lies and corruption?

The NUS should have been given the option. 9K tuition fees, or a 75% reduction in university places. Free vote amongst the NUS.

Too many people go to uni these days, doing mickey mouse degrees. We had a 40% dropout rate on our course in the first year. It should be like that. Very selective and only for the top 5% of the population.

olly300

mbga9pgf wrote: »

Lies and corruption?

The NUS should have been given the option. 9K tuition fees, or a 75% reduction in university places. Free vote amongst the NUS.

Too many people go to uni these days, doing mickey mouse degrees. We had a 40% dropout rate on our course in the first year. It should be like that. Very selective and only for the top 5% of the population.

This has been discussed and pointed out before:
1. The CBI years ago demanded more graduates so we could compete on an international arena.
2. There is a lack of employers willing to train up their staff. Lots of employers I've worked for will happy look aboard before employing a UK citizen who they can train up. (There have been 3 who have employed 16 years olds and/or university students.)
3. People and foreign governments are fed up with countries like the UK stealing their educated and trained citizens i.e. doctors, nurses
4. The 5% going to university years ago wasn't based on intelligence or ability to cope academically it was based on wealth and being told that you could go to university. I know a few people 50+ who went to university and got thirds and passes.

olly300

jamesd wrote: »

I agree.

If we substiture "merit" for "intelligence" I agree. Intelligence should make it easier to meet most criteria for merit, whatever those are in a particular society. Though the Khmer Rouge had a pretty adverse selection process for intelligence.


Are you trying to argue that huge amounts of wealth do make a difference or that they don't make a difference? The professions are a fortunately larger group of people than just a royal family, though the one we have seems to be fairly capable of doing its job properly.

There is no social class on any scale called the "Professionals". Those in "white collar" jobs like those in "blue collar" jobs are split up according to what they do.

The highest group in any social scale used is always the Monarchy (or the Royals as I've called them). The Monarchy shows that you can have the environment and the money to get you the best education but it doesn't mean you have the intelligence (or academic ability).

jamesd wrote: »

Not really, though I'm sure that's a factor. What I was thinking of was actively encouraging children to learn, being interested in their education achievements and related factors. The sorts of things that encourage you to do well at school.

That's quite encouraging for those of us who like the idea of social mobility.

Interestingly in my group of friends who have did really well at university they came from all sorts of backgrounds including ex-miners, factory workers and plumbers children. The only thing connecting them is that their parents worked. (In fact thinking about it most of my group of friends who did really well had mothers who did much more than sitting at home during their childhood.)

One well recognised problem now is generations where there isn't a working adult in the family.

jamesd wrote: »

Yes, that's certainly something that happens. Going to be pretty hard to be good at abstract mathematics at Cambridge if you can't multiply very well, though. There's some minimal merit standard that has to be there if you're to have any hope of succeeding in the course.

Of course their is some minimal standard i.e. sitting A levels but the fact that if your school/college doesn't encourage you to apply to university, doesn't help you with your UCAS statement and then doesn't help you with any other entrance exam you are going to have a much poorer chance of getting in than a child that does is an issue.

In addition those who don't have family/school and funds that help them do extra-curricular activities are also going to find it much harder to get into a top university than ones that do.

Talking to a friend from a country where education opportunity depends very little on your parents wealth, there are loads of activities children do that people in the UK immediate associate with social class and wealth.

lostinrates

Stryder wrote: »

Show me a copper who gets a speeding ticket and I will show you a Lib Dem that does not lie! (they do happen, but lets face it, its pretty rare).

I know two who have speeding tickets from mobile test units not just cameras. One of those has got two, one from a camera, one having been pulled over. 45mph in a 40 zone.

I don't know that the average copper has that much power. I think I probably feel more empowered than many of them!

Really2

Stryder wrote: »

You mentioned Hillsborough and how awful it was.

No I did not mention it, someone else did, I said how tasteless it was to say it was down to violence and that they deserved it.
I mentioned nothing of the police being angels. I would say get your facts straight.

Really2

Stryder wrote: »

WOW
Amazing that you know the ration and therefore the number! Mind you I did not realise that there was less than 40 police at the protests!!!! WOW - I guess that is only newspapers spoke to Really2 then they would be better informed. I mean, The mirror suggested that the ratio was expected to be 1 armoured and armed police officer (some with similarly armoured horses) to ever 20 unarmoured 15-70year olds with placards. (numbers expected 1000 officers to 2000 protesters http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1336625/Tuition-fees-protest-1-000-police-ready-20-000-demonstrators-ahead-vote.html)

9 December
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_UK_student_protests
[edit]Parliament Square protest
On Thursday 9 December, the day of the scheduled vote on education reform in the Houses of Parliament, two separate protests were organised in central London; one being led by the National Union of Students (NUS), the other jointly by the University of London Union (ULU) and the National Campaign Against Fees and Cuts (NCAFC), with an expected 40,000 people attending.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/dec/09/student-protest-tuition-fees-university-of-london

Up to 40,000 school pupils, college pupils and university students are expected to protest against the measures in London today,

http://music.aol.co.uk/2010/12/10/dave-gilmour-son-protest-cenotaph/

Over 30,000 took to the streets on the day the UK's government voted to raise student tuition fees by a third,

are you saying there were over 15,000 police there that day.
lets look
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-12/14/c_13647529.htm

All four marches ended in violence, with the final march last Thursday seeing nearly 3,000 police deployed around the Houses of Parliament as protesters occupied Parliament Square directly outside.

Now I never went uni but I make 30,000 - 40,0000 student / >3000 police = more than 1000:1

ALIBOBSY

Really2 wrote: »

I missed that post by ninky thank god I did. It takes some kind of twisted idiot to come up with that.
Hillsborough was caused by a crush, people (children and adults) literally had theirs lives crushed out of them and died standing.

Only a moron who knows nothing about it and cares not about the people involved then links that to football violence.

It is the fictional ramblings of someone with a desperate political agenda.
PS for those that don't know I am a Liverpool supporter.

Absolutely agree. I still believe the FA never got hung out as much as they should have for that horror and tradgedy. Some friends who were sheffield season pass holders said to my Dad the week before the match that they couldn't understand why the match was being played at Hilsborough as it would be too small. If the fans knew that why the hell didn't the FA. But that is a completely separate and different incident that bears no relation to the current events, pretty scummy to bring up in relation to this to be honest, does he realise how many people died? To try to use an event like that for political wrangling is beyond contempt.

ali x

lostinrates

olly300 wrote: »

There is no social class on any scale called the "Professionals". Those in "white collar" jobs like those in "blue collar" jobs are split up according to what they do.

The highest group in any social scale used is always the Monarchy (or the Royals as I've called them). The Monarchy shows that you can have the environment and the money to get you the best education but it doesn't mean you have the intelligence (or academic ability).
.

I do not believe being monied predisposes one to intelligence, but to cite the Monarchy as the pinnacle of genetic selection to support this is a bit laughable. There is a fine line between line breeding and inbreeding and I think its been well and truely crossed in the past. In anycase, the argument of genetic fittest is in appropriacy. The creme de la creme of squirrels may or may not be more intelligent than I but its sure as ''nuts is nuts'' better at being a squirrel. Perhaps the same holds. :D