what sort of government uses water cannon on protestors?

olly300

Stryder wrote: »

The police are the suppose professionals. They get paid to uphold the law.
If they break the law then who polices them?

There is a massive over use of the term "professionals" in this thread.

If you seen or known anything about how the police act in various crowd situations you know they are definitely not professionals.

Stryder wrote: »

You can not right a wrong by adding another wrong. If the police can not handle demonstrations then they should go back to the training college.

Little point in that. Unfortunately certain jobs require you to have a sheep mentality until you get above a particular position.

Stryder wrote: »

Dont forget, half the rights we have in this country we have got from protest, and not by talking.

And oddly enough the government only tends to pay attention when either protests involve damaging property, are violent, are particularly long or in most cases all of them.

chris_m

olly300 wrote: »

There is a massive over use of the term "professionals" in this thread.

If you seen or known anything about how the police act in various crowd situations you know they are definitely not professionals.

Professional means solely that someone is doing something for which they are paid - unless the Met is using volunteers for riot control (dunno if Special Constables get called in for that role or not) they are all professionals.

Jennifer_Jane

In my view, the NUS failed in their duty to marshall their protest. Therefore costs for cleaning/repairing damage etc, should come out of the NUS coffers. (I refer to ANC marches in South Africa in the days when Apartheid was thankfully falling, when the ANC very successfully marshalled their supporters).

As for what Theresa May said in Parliament, I watched this, and she said that the Police could not use water cannon without Home Office consent. She said that the Police had not yet asked for this. She did not know if they would request that consent. She said that she did not want water cannon used. She repeated about the water cannon several times as people on the Opposition benches seemed unable to grasp the point. She did say, in reply to a question from the Opposition, that anyone breaking the law should be dealt with robustly. She also said that the Police should be using intelligence more effectively.

Incidentally, it was also mentioned that water cannon use had resulted in blindness in one case. So it's not just a question of 'getting wet'.

Also, I have two 3-year diplomas which I paid for myself and both times did whilst I was working full-time. There is no Government increase of fees, there is simply a removal of the cap on fees which Universities were allowed to charge. There is no upfront payment (as I had to do for my diplomas), there is a loan which only gets repaid once salaries increase to £21,000 and which gets stopped if the salary decreases. Your future is not decimated because university may or may not be becoming more expensive to graduate.

The whole Student fees situation has come from The Brown Commission which was commissioned by Labour and which Labour would have implemented (no-one in the Labour Party has denied this).

PhylPho

@ Jennifer_Jane: I personally wouldn't go so far as to hold the NUS responsible for the way their protest demonstrations are hijacked by sociopaths. In this age of the Internet, any public protest can be targeted for exploitation by those with no interest in it, in much the same way that any issue can be seized upon for manipulation in an online forum by those with no interest nor understanding of it. (As keeps happening here on MSE.)

Everything else in your post though merits being pinned to the board. (Along with Martin Lewis's own comments, which I referred to earlier.)

Many thanks for preferring honesty to deceit, and fact to self-serving rhetoric.

PhylPho

Stryder wrote: »

where is the dramatisation... these are facts.
If you prefer to divert your eyes from what is going on, then do so.
And I never suggested "mass murder".

Sincere apologies, Stryder, for confusing a comment made by a poster called Stryder with yourself as a poster who is also called Stryder.

I am prepared to accept that you as Stryder did not say the following a dozen or so posts back in this thread:

You mentioned Hillsborough and how awful it was... can I remind you that nearly 96 people were murdered by the South Yorkshire constabulary...

and that it was this other poster called Stryder who in citing a multiplicity of killings (as distinct from just one) was all too obviously accusing the South Yorkshire constabulary of mass murder.

Could I suggest that you get onto MSE immediately to stop the other Stryder and his / her deranged comments from being confused with your own mature comments as a Stryder who has "never suggested mass murder" nor ever would?

Many thanks.

sabretoothtigger

aardvaak wrote: »

Lets hope that any future employers of these monkies see the mugshots then don't employ them - that would serve them right.

٩(•̮̮̃•̃)۶ ٩(-̮̮̃-̃)۶ ٩(●̮̮̃•̃)۶ ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩(-̮̮̃•̃)۶



Dont think that many were students or would be in jobs where anyone cares. In many places it would be a point of pride, infamy

when the ANC very successfully marshalled their supporters

really, quite often looked like chaos to me. Growing up I remember Palestine and south africa, almost every day and certainity every week the news on more ordinary people lying dead in the streets for no good reason.
Thankfully one came to an end but not sure I remember it ever being especially peacefully demonstrated

Jennifer_Jane

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

٩(•̮̮̃•̃)۶ ٩(-̮̮̃-̃)۶ ٩(●̮̮̃•̃)۶ ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩(-̮̮̃•̃)۶


really, quite often looked like chaos to me. Growing up I remember Palestine and south africa, almost every day and certainity every week the news on more ordinary people lying dead in the streets for no good reason.
Thankfully one came to an end but not sure I remember it ever being especially peacefully demonstrated

Don't you? I certainly do, perhaps you only heard about the violent ones from an earlier time. I purposely said as 'Apartheid was falling' and that was the timing I was mentioning. In other words when the ANC had been unbanned. There were many marches all of which were responsibly marshalled by the ANC, and consequently were peaceful. I think you are talking of general protests of an earlier time. The NUS organised these protests but they have not taken one iota of responsibility for them, except for some feeble, half-hearted saying 'Please be peaceful'.

Anyway, I wonder if the police could have gathered intelligence in the way that they have done with football hooligans. But am unsure what they could have done with that intelligence.

Really2

Stryder wrote: »

So you say there was an approximate 10 students and children to every heavily armed policeman? somewhat different to 1000:1

Yes, knee jerk and no calculation on my behalf, you would not have done such a thing though surely.

Stryder wrote: »

(numbers expected 1000 officers to 2000 protesters

Perhaps you would after all, I make that 1:2

But back on original point if 43 students were injured (not all by the police either) and 9 police
who has the highest ratio of injured?
1 in 697 student (based on A generously low 30,000)
1 in 333 police.

So does not really fit in with the police being indiscriminate, they were twice as likely to walk away injured from a "peaceful protest"

naughtybish

forget using water cannons ,
a bucket of cold p!ss would be much more appropriate on some of the little rascals !

Really2

naughtybish wrote: »

forget using water cannons ,
a bucket of cold p!ss would be much more appropriate on some of the little rascals !

Nah, that would feel more like a festival.