what sort of government uses water cannon on protestors?

ALIBOBSY

Did anyone see the wheelchair guy being interviewed on breakfast this morning. Very enlightening. It was obvious from the things he said he is very polictically motivated and so far to the left lol.

Telling moments-in reply to why he hadn't yet made a complaint to the met "I am in discussions with my solicitor" and the moment when he said he had been to all the student protests and had been to "many other protests before".

To be honest the Protesters would have done better to keep this guys under wraps, sounds better to say the police attacked a wheelchair user and show grainy pictures of him being taken from his chair, than to show the reality that he is obviously a left wing politico who is well used to causing trouble and "protesting" against anything and everything.

Whilst I don't believe the police get everything right and have to be subject to public scrutiny like any public body, these protests have been hijacked by left wingers determined to make some polictical mileage out of this issue, it has been turned from a protest into pure riots and any chance that the majority of people in this country would support their position has long since been destroyed by the violence and disgusting behaviour.

Having looked at the new system and various reports on it, it doesn't seem any less fair than the old system, just differently weighted. It is fairer on thos from less affluent backgrounds and at the end of the day if your degree doesn't end up giving you a higher income later in life you will never pay a penny for it.

The money going into higher ed has to be cut (unless the NUS would prefer the NHS to be cut, or primary schools perhaps) at least this way the opportunity is still there, the only other way would be to cut places at uni.

ali x

BTW agree with the poster who said all costs for damage should come out of the HIgher ed budget.

ninky_2

mbga9pgf wrote: »

Lies and corruption?

The NUS should have been given the option. 9K tuition fees, or a 75% reduction in university places. Free vote amongst the NUS.

Too many people go to uni these days, doing mickey mouse degrees. We had a 40% dropout rate on our course in the first year. It should be like that. Very selective and only for the top 5% of the population.

good idea. i'm not sure about the 75 percent but certainly should be a large drop in the number of publicly subsidised uni places and an increase in shorter vocational courses and train on the job courses.

Really2

ninky wrote: »

an increase in shorter vocational courses and train on the job courses.

Is that not an option if you don't go to uni? I often get called about part funded places for staff.

Graham_Devon

Stryder wrote: »

You mentioned Hillsborough and how awful it was... can I remind you that nearly 96 people were murdered by the South Yorkshire constabulary... Yes, police involved in a crush situation.

In mainland Britain 13 police officers have sadly died in the last 10 years... Hillsborough took 96 and there have been about 500 deaths between 1997 and 2007.

I do not condone any killings but the idea that the police are angels and protesters are evil, violent thugs, shows a naivety that is frankly humiliating.

How many people would have died if police just let riots go and let them do what they like?

Catch 22 isnt it? You'll slam police for taking action, but I bet you'd slam them more if they didn't and simply let things get out of hand.

jamespir

a childish goverment

Graham_Devon

ALIBOBSY wrote: »

Did anyone see the wheelchair guy being interviewed on breakfast this morning. Very enlightening. It was obvious from the things he said he is very polictically motivated and so far to the left lol.perhaps) at least this way the opportunity is still there, the only other way would be to cut places at uni.

He was on the BBC last night.

I wasn't quite sure what to make of it all.

He said he wasn't pressing charges, or following it up. However, when interviewed, and got stuck on a question as to WHY he wasn't following it up if it was as he said he was, he changed his mind, and said he's in talks with a solicitor ABOUT following it up.

What do you need to talk about if it's all as he said it was, AND captured. Theres either a case, and he should definately chase it, or there isn't, and they are having to figure things out to find the best route.

Any question, he accused the BBC of trying to put words in hsi mouth because he is disabled. He then went on to talk about palestine and the BBC's bias coverage.

Key was his stance that HE did nothing. He wouldn't seem to comment on any of his other involvement, and again, when asked if he was INVOLVED, it was back to "I'm disabled". A disability doesn't stop him being involved in certain ways, but like he said, HE didn't do anything because he's disabled.

Not sure we will ever really know. There was something going on.

He stated that the police were pulling him out of his wheelchair to incite violence.

However, I find it dubious that the camera only starts rolling when it LOOKS as if hes innocently sitting there and being pulled out of his wheelchair.

Obviously he was totally against the police. Personally think there must be some kind of setup to get the pictures they wanted, hence the reluctance to follow it up, and the talks with a solicitor, presumably to find the best way to go about charging the police.

Very strange, anyway. We can see the unfortunate guy is disabled, but he seemed to use it to his advantage every time he was asked something he didn't want to answer.....so I'd guess there is a high chance of his disability being used in a protest to an advantage. Not sure.

sabretoothtigger

A government which has to save money on police, water is cheaper

PhylPho

Anarchist groups and other havens for the sociopathic exploit any protest if there's a reasonable certainty the national meeja will be there -- otherwise, there's no point in going along to one if your heroic stance ain't going to be publicised.

Meeja will cover any protest if there's a reasonable certainty violent sociopaths will be there -- otherwise, there's no point in hiring expensive over-flying helicopters if the only people on-screen are a bunch of boringly peaceful folks strolling down a street.

The sociopathic as well as meeja will always inflate the numbers at such events (for 100s, read 1,000s; for 1,000s, read tens of 1,000s) because the former needs to demonstrate the strength of its "cause" and the latter trades in sensationalism.

As to the issue at hand: student fees are of no consequence to those seeking to intimidate, smash, defile or destroy. Any issue will do -- a fact made plain in the writings of the umpteen sad-sack groups that anyone can read on the Internet and elsewhere.

The issue of student fees is also of little consequence to many Internet forum posters, too, because if it was, they'd have taken the trouble to go to the facts first and the barricades, after.

Although with some fora it's perhaps excusable for some posters to lash out in ignorance, no such excuse applies on MSE. That's because someone with many years of experience in the subject happens to be closely associated with MSE.

His name is Martin Lewis.

His view of the situation -- from a perspective informed by fact rather than fantasy -- is here for anyone to read:

http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2010/12/03/the-argument-over-student-loans-could-kill-the-next-generations-education/

As to the OP.

Water cannon has not been proved to be particularly effective. Like CS gas, it is indiscriminate. It has the potential to commit harm in the service of trying to do good.

What would make more sense -- though this is only my point of view -- is an amendment to Public Order legislation whereby it is an offence in itself to participate in a protest demonstration when wearing clothes in such a way as to hide your identity.

If I have a cause the protection of which means I feel it necessary to take to the streets, then I want my face to be known just as much as I want my voice to be heard. Anything less, and the question has to be asked: why am I really there?

PhylPho

Stryder wrote: »

Really2 wrote: »

>
You mentioned Hillsborough and how awful it was... can I remind you that nearly 96 people were murdered by the South Yorkshire constabulary...
>
I do not condone any killings but the idea that the police are angels and protesters are evil, violent thugs, shows a naivety that is frankly humiliating.

The only frankly humiliating naivety on display here stems from your decision to post such a comment about mass murder.

Society is fallible. Its institutions are fallible. The blindingly obvious doesn't need dramatising.

jimibaboza

olly300 wrote: »

A lot of it is the media's fault.

There was a march were I live by university students plus supporters, and absolutely no violence as the only media attention they were getting was from the local press.

Like with the miners strike do not trust official media outlets to give you the full truth.

Charlie Brooker sums this up nicely on his newswipe show.

youtube dot com/watch?v=JMR43zGiy5o