what sort of government uses water cannon on protestors?

chucky

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Barking up the wrong tree here chucky. Unless you were in the middle of the the crowds causing damage, you have as much of an idea as I do. Where I live makes absolutely no difference.

of course it matters or are you being dim again. seeing that i live and work in London i've got a pretty good idea of what was happening and saw some of what happened too.

obviously being the Professor of Devonian Theory gives you more knowledge than anyone else though... so stop talking rubbish for a change devon.

Graham_Devon

chucky wrote: »

of course it matters or are you being dim again. seeing that i live and work in London i've got a pretty good idea of what was happening and saw some of what happened too.

obviously being the Professor of Devonian Theory gives you more knowledge than anyone else though... so stop talking rubbish for a change devon.

If I agree you are right, will you give up for a while?

You are right. You know far more about what happened, as you live and work in London and I only saw everything live, from various cameras in various locations.

michaels

To the OP - perhaps you could offer for all 'peaceful protests' to be held outside your house and then hand out a few bricks so they can smash up your car and your windows to 'make their point' as you seem happy to see others property smashed?

Mean while you probably feel that all the analysis that shows the new graduate tax (for that is in effect what is being proposed) is more progressive than the system it replaces with those on low incomes paying back least are in some way wrong (probably an arts graduate?)

chucky

lostinrates wrote: »

chucky, may I ask what or who you think the answer might be? Its never clear to me!

i've no idea but i know that what the tories are doing is upsetting not only the wrong people but the most important people in all of this - the next generation... they're cutting where it's worse, what abotu the defence budget??

more importantly - the education of the next generation is going to suffer. 100%

less importantly - how many of these students that will now have to pay for their education will vote tory or Lib dem?

chucky

Graham_Devon wrote: »

If I agree you are right, will you give up for a while?

You are right. You know far more about what happened, as you live and work in London and I only saw everything live, from various cameras in various locations.

a village somewhere is missing someone like you...

if you prefer to believe everything you see on the news as what happens everywhere - you're more stupid than i thought.

chucky

michaels wrote: »

Mean while you probably feel that all the analysis that shows the new graduate tax (for that is in effect what is being proposed) is more progressive than the system it replaces with those on low incomes paying back least are in some way wrong (probably an arts graduate?)

progressive economically or progressive educationally?

olly300

Cleaver wrote: »

Again, you seriously think this? You don't think that the criminal element are putting people off? Funnily enough my Dad feels very strongly about these fee rises (much stronger than me) and wanted to go down to London to protest, but said to me that he's put off doing so because he doesn't want to mix with criminals. Is that the police's fault?

A lot of it is the media's fault.

There were quite a number of adult journalists on twitter and giving updates via their mobile phones stating that nothing was happening at the beginning of the demonstration and only seemed happy when something violent happened.

There as the student journalists and commentators messages were more sincere i.e. stating why they were demonstrating, telling people to join them and then thanking those people/businesses who were being helpful like giving them free food.

There was a march were I live by university students plus supporters, and absolutely no violence as the only media attention they were getting was from the local press.

Like with the miners strike do not trust official media outlets to give you the full truth.

chucky

olly300 wrote: »

A lot of it is the media's fault.

There were quite a number of adult journalists on twitter and giving updates via their mobile phones stating that nothing was happening at the beginning of the demonstration and only seemed happy when something violent happened.

There as the student journalists and commentators messages were more sincere i.e. stating why they were demonstrating, telling people to join them and then thanking those people/businesses who were being helpful like giving them free food.

There was a march were I live by university students plus supporters, and absolutely no violence as the only media attention they were getting was from the local press.

Like with the miners strike do not trust official media outlets to give you the full truth.

very well put Olly - BBC news apparently tells you the real story... !!!!!!!?

olly300

chucky wrote: »

very well put Olly - BBC news apparently tells you the real story... !!!!!!!?

The Guardian and Channel 4 are as guilty as the BBC in this respect.

Edited to say: The government has to answer to the press. Due to Tony Blair courting the media now no elected British official has a choice but co-operate.

Cleaver

olly300 wrote: »

A lot of it is the media's fault.

There were quite a number of adult journalists on twitter and giving updates via their mobile phones stating that nothing was happening at the beginning of the demonstration and only seemed happy when something violent happened.

There as the student journalists and commentators messages were more sincere i.e. stating why they were demonstrating, telling people to join them and then thanking those people/businesses who were being helpful like giving them free food.

There was a march were I live by university students plus supporters, and absolutely no violence as the only media attention they were getting was from the local press.

Like with the miners strike do not trust official media outlets to give you the full truth.

A good post, and I agree with a lot of it. It's complex thing as the government could handle things better, so could the media and so could the police. No one is coming out of this looking good.

But let's be clear, whatever way you look at it you have a criminal element causing criminal damage. Whatever you think of the government, media or police, these are the people who we should condemn (no pun intended) first.