Student Loans 2012

melancholly

wintersunshine wrote: »

The universites can say they are going to charge these fees but I'm not sure students will pay.

i'm not sure they all will either - but then we end up in a situation where we've gone back 50 years... higher education will be just for those rich enough to do it. that's a really sad outcome - i hate the idea that access to a degree is dependent on how much money your family has. that would be a tragic legacy of this government.

Oldernotwiser

arsenalbarnie wrote: »

I take it yours is a creative one then!:D

Hardly....

wintersunshine

melancholly wrote: »

i'm not sure they all will either - but then we end up in a situation where we've gone back 50 years... higher education will be just for those rich enough to do it. that's a really sad outcome - i hate the idea that access to a degree is dependent on how much money your family has. that would be a tragic legacy of this government.

If you are interested I have started a thread on this on Discussion Time here

and here

Derivative

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I'm amazed that there are people who think that helping children from poorer families is "unfair" to those who are well off! Obviously the word means different things to different people!

I am one of the poorer students that benefit from these bursaries and grants and I think the system is unfair. Especially as it's tested at the moment.

I would much rather a system that allows less financial help per student, but more equally.

http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/vc/news/studentfunding/ (tables at the very bottom)

Have a look at this. Ignoring loans and talking purely tuition spent and grants recieved, with the current maintenance grant (probably going up) from Student Finance, the lower income student sits about £10k up, per year, on a student assessed on £45k household income.

£45k, for a family living in the southeast is hardly a ridiculous salary. It may be above the median but I can see people struggling to stump up £40k per child for a 4 year degree.

Even purely based on Student Finance and with no extra bursary/fee waiver from a University you're at £12k over 4 years.

I'd like to see the support given by other Universities, but as I see it, any significant waiver for lower income students hits the 'rich' (45k household?) disproportionately hard.

We're not talking millionaires here, just the middle class.

Oldernotwiser

EdgEy wrote: »

I'd like to see the support given by other Universities, but as I see it, any significant waiver for lower income students hits the 'rich' (45k household?) disproportionately hard.

We're not talking millionaires here, just the middle class.

I think that, for families on benefits or working for around NMW, 45K is riches, even in the south east.

Derivative

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I think that, for families on benefits or working for around NMW, 45K is riches, even in the south east.

Fair enough, I fall into that group though and I'd call 45k a reasonable benchmark to aspire to, in and around M25 on 45k nowadays you'd struggle to get a mortgage considering we're talking 2-3 bed with kids.

"Riches" is not having to work and living off assets IMO, 45k you're far from that.

I'm not saying a family on NMW should be contributing thousands to University fees, I just think that the additional grants for lower income households are too generous. Loans will cover tuition fees, SF maintenance grants cover accommodation.

The problem is that I don't think household income is correlated as much with future earning potential as these grants seem to suggest. Bigger loans make sense, grants are just that - free money. When you finish University, unless your family are really well off you'll be paying your own student loans and that's based on your income, not Bank of M&D.

arsenalbarnie

EdgEy wrote: »

Fair enough, I fall into that group though and I'd call 45k a reasonable benchmark to aspire to, in and around M25 on 45k nowadays you'd struggle to get a mortgage considering we're talking 2-3 bed with kids.

"Riches" is not having to work and living off assets IMO, 45k you're far from that.

I'm not saying a family on NMW should be contributing thousands to University fees, I just think that the additional grants for lower income households are too generous. Loans will cover tuition fees, SF maintenance grants cover accommodation.

The problem is that I don't think household income is correlated as much with future earning potential as these grants seem to suggest. Bigger loans make sense, grants are just that - free money. When you finish University, unless your family are really well off you'll be paying your own student loans and that's based on your income, not Bank of M&D.

Quite right, no one is being asked to pay anything up front.

melancholly

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12879817

Leeds Met charging £8.5K......

i guess if most degrees are £7 or £8K, then the difference between that and a 'top' uni at £9K isn't much compared to the total loans.

Lokolo

melancholly wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12879817

Leeds Met charging £8.5K......

i guess if most degrees are £7 or £8K, then the difference between that and a 'top' uni at £9K isn't much compared to the total loans.

How dare you say that on MSE! That's not the spirit!

melancholly

Lokolo wrote: »

How dare you say that on MSE! That's not the spirit!

lol ok.... fair point!