Student Loans 2012

melancholly

whatever system they have, those in the middle will feel hard done by. it already happens to a degree with the current system - those who have plenty of money (where the parents are prepared to contribute!) can just pay up front. the means tested part means that a lot of people on middle incomes don't get the extra help. it's never been fair (although i don't think that means we should just not bother trying to improve fairness!).

i'm not entirely comfortable with all the suggestions of what help will be given to those on lower incomes, but the part i really don't like is that it will be controlled by each institution. that just means it will be so complicated to find out what you're entitled to. i can't see how adding an extra layer of variability will improve access - those who have no experience of HE will not find it easier to understand..... all the 'suggestions' from Manchester still need to be approved and as far as i can tell, the cut-offs for help haven't been clearly defined (they may be just as misleading as saying that top fees would only be charged in 'exceptional circumstances' when their own figures had an average of £7.5K!). i think most of the announcements on fees are PR exercises more than anything else....too little detail to be able to get anything more than a sound bite!

devildog

The One Who,
I know that things will never be fair and level, but they should be
Poorer children do go without life enriching experiences and I know because we were low income and couldn't afford these things. Determined not to stay at that level we took the only option open to us at the time and have pulled ourselves up so to speak thinking that what we couldn't give them when they were younger could now be given.But no, because we have done this they are not entitled to major help re Unis so we contribute there too. Not that I am complaining at that (our choice to help) but had we not taken the action we did and instead done nothing they would have been entitled to the maximum 'freebies' so in affect penalised for trying to help ourselves.
I also recall a post from here a year or two back where a man, instead of putting money into an ISA account chose to invest in stocks and shares, had he invested in the ISA the interest would not of been classed as income but because he chose to invest 'his way' he was penalised when his dd went to Uni.
The new rules coming into effect will have no bearing on me or mine but it doesn't mean that I can't see the injustice in it.

Oldernotwiser

arsenalbarnie wrote: »

Well off people do help those poorer than others by paying more income tax.

Only if they have useless accountants!;)

wintersunshine

melancholly wrote: »

the sad thing is that we've ended up with what everyone predicted.... 'good' unis are all charging the top amount and the only ones to announce that they'll be below that aren't necessarily worth the money..... (the only one at around £6K sits at the bottom of all league tables!). at least all the info should be out soon. it's about time everything was clear and laid out!

The universites can say they are going to charge these fees but I'm not sure students will pay. To be perfectly honest, if my kids are only going to get into a "not very prestigious uni" unless they are going to be doing something vocational like nursing, teaching, business studies, etc, I fully intend to tell them to have a very serious think about whether it is worth the money and effort. It's become very obvious to me that neither employers nor the government value degrees very much. If it adds little to their CV what's the point?

For example, my friend's son has just graduated with a degree from Oxford in Eng Lit and can't get a job, so what is the point in doing English Lit at a poorly ranked Uni unless you have decided you definitely want to teach.

The days of doing a degree just "to expand your mind and broaden your horizons" are gone as far as I'm concerned. When a degree costs nearly the same as half a house, I'd personally put more vaue on the house.

Nothing to stop them soing a degree later in life if they have a burning desire.

But that's just my opinion.

Lokolo

wintersunshine wrote: »

For example, my friend's son has just graduated with a degree from Oxford in Eng Lit and can't get a job, so what is the point in doing English Lit at a poorly ranked Uni unless you have decided you definitely want to teach.

How do you know its the degree thats holding him back?

arsenalbarnie

wintersunshine wrote: »

The universites can say they are going to charge these fees but I'm not sure students will pay. To be perfectly honest, if my kids are only going to get into a "not very prestigious uni" unless they are going to be doing something vocational like nursing, teaching, business studies, etc, I fully intend to tell them to have a very serious think about whether it is worth the money and effort. It's become very obvious to me that neither employers nor the government value degrees very much. If it adds little to their CV what's the point?

For example, my friend's son has just graduated with a degree from Oxford in Eng Lit and can't get a job, so what is the point in doing English Lit at a poorly ranked Uni unless you have decided you definitely want to teach.

The days of doing a degree just "to expand your mind and broaden your horizons" are gone as far as I'm concerned. When a degree costs nearly the same as half a house, I'd personally put more vaue on the house.

Nothing to stop them soing a degree later in life if they have a burning desire.

But that's just my opinion.

If only teenagers had our head on their shoulders. I fear that many won't listen to their parents advice though. After all what do we know.

wintersunshine

Lokolo wrote: »

How do you know its the degree thats holding him back?

I don't - but he's not alone, plenty of his class mates don't have a job either. He's now doing a masters just to fill in his time (more debt!!!!) He doesn't want to teach and after years of working really hard he can't believe it was all "for nothing".

My niece doesn' have a job either, I can't remember what her degree was in, she still works as a waitress. Her sister didn't go to Uni (she didn't get one single GCSE!) and is making loads of money working as a qualified hairdresser. Go figure!

The_One_Who

The problem is that some graduates seem to expect a job to be given to them, simply because they have a piece of paper. There are jobs out there. They may not be exactly what the person is wanting, but something is better than nothing. I know that in some sectors going the 'graduate scheme' route is the only option, but a lot of others are open. A grad scheme can be the fast track, but it is certainly not the only way to a similar job.

Sadly, more and more people seem to be doing a Masters just to kill another year rather than out of any enjoyment or intellectual curiosity. Personally, I think that is one of the poorest reasons to do one, especially since they aren't cheap. Really, all it is doing it putting off the exact same situation for another year.

Also, since when has business studies been a vocational subject?

Lokolo

The_One_Who wrote: »

The problem is that some graduates seem to expect a job to be given to them, simply because they have a piece of paper. There are jobs out there. They may not be exactly what the person is wanting, but something is better than nothing. I know that in some sectors going the 'graduate scheme' route is the only option, but a lot of others are open. A grad scheme can be the fast track, but it is certainly not the only way to a similar job.

Sadly, more and more people seem to be doing a Masters just to kill another year rather than out of any enjoyment or intellectual curiosity. Personally, I think that is one of the poorest reasons to do one, especially since they aren't cheap. Really, all it is doing it putting off the exact same situation for another year.

Also, since when has business studies been a vocational subject?

Quite so!

All 5 of my housemates now have jobs. We all go to an ex poly - rank 86th in the gaurdians league tables.

I really don't think university has a big impact - but yes, has an impact - but not as much as people make out.

arsenalbarnie

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Only if they have useless accountants!;)

I take it yours is a creative one then!:D