Student Loans 2012

Oldernotwiser

I'm amazed that there are people who think that helping children from poorer families is "unfair" to those who are well off! Obviously the word means different things to different people!

setmefree2

I can't say I've heard of this one but

Bishop Grosseteste University College has become the first university in England to announce planned tuition fees for 2012 below the £9,000 maximum.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12852118

and also

The University of Warwick plans to raise tuition fees to the maximum level of £9,000 per year from 2012.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-12856071

setmefree2

In the Warwick article

The University of Warwick said it would offer state school students and students with full bursaries from Independent schools discounts and bursaries worth up to £4,500 per year. On that basis, it said about 1,500 (19%) of its current undergraduate student population would qualify for some form of financial support.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-12856071

Meaning students from families earning less than £25k. Sandwich courses and part time courses to cost £6k.

See here
http://theboar.org/news/2011/mar/23/warwick-confirms-fee-rise-9000-2012/

arsenalbarnie

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I'm amazed that there are people who think that helping children from poorer families is "unfair" to those who are well off! Obviously the word means different things to different people!

Well off people do help those poorer than others by paying more income tax.

setmefree2

Here might be a useful Link

Undergraduate tuition fees for 2012-13, listed by university

THE Universities across England are finalising their plans for tuition fees in 2012-13.

Here, we list the institutions that have so far announced their plans, which remain subject to agreement with the Office for Fair Access if the level is above £6,000.
Unless stated otherwise, this represents the headline fee level before any waivers for poorer students. The list will be kept updated as further institutions announce their fee levels.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=415618

dizzie

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I'm amazed that there are people who think that helping children from poorer families is "unfair" to those who are well off! Obviously the word means different things to different people!

Let's be clear about this: I am not against helping people from poorer backgrounds per se - it is the level of "help" that is being offered that is the issue. This goes beyond putting poorer students on an "equal financial footing" to their peers at university and has become a case of social engineering.

The reason I say this is that many of those that you (or the government) class as "well off" will not be able to subsidise their kids to the same amount as that received by "poorer" kids from the government and universities.

Frankly, it amazes me that you should support this huge financial assistance from state and universities - but berate parents (whose kids will not receive such assistance) from doing their best to help their offspring.

Is it a case that if you get help from the state then that's okay, but if it's help from a parent then "mummy/daddy should be ashamed for mollycoddling you and not allowing you to stand on your own two feet....and sink in the quicksand of a lifetime of debt"?

And is it fair that, say, a medical graduate who came from a poor background will pay very little in loan repayments once qualified - despite the capacity to earn a high wage, whilst a colleague with identical earnings could have to pay well over £100,000 over a lifetime (due to loans for tuition, maintenance and interest)?

devildog

Bishop Gross takes a lot of students wishing to do courses involved in childcare/teaching.

ONW-I am not against helping children from lower income families in that yes they should be helped to get through Uni if that is the course
they wish to follow. What I am against is the fact that at the end of a degree they will (should) have substantially lower debt to repay compared to those that may come from slightly better off families. If a degree is worth so much to students and is said to increase their job prospects so equaling their chances at employment why should student A start working life with a far lower debt than student B?
If you just take into consideration the tuition fees(nevermind the maintenance loans) student A will pay £9,000,student B £27,000 and I am sure if the figures were looked into it does not mean that student B's family income necessarily has excess income of £18,000!
Somehow the system needs to be looked at so that students are on a 'level playing field'when they graduate. The unfairness comes from the fact that one student has to repay far more when a degree should give them equal opportunities in the working world.

PaulW1965

dizzie wrote: »

Let's be clear about this: I am not against helping people from poorer backgrounds per se - it is the level of "help" that is being offered that is the issue. This goes beyond putting poorer students on an "equal financial footing" to their peers at university and has become a case of social engineering.

The reason I say this is that many of those that you (or the government) class as "well off" will not be able to subsidise their kids to the same amount as that received by "poorer" kids from the government and universities.

Frankly, it amazes me that you should support this huge financial assistance from state and universities - but berate parents (whose kids will not receive such assistance) from doing their best to help their offspring.

Is it a case that if you get help from the state then that's okay, but if it's help from a parent then "mummy/daddy should be ashamed for mollycoddling you and not allowing you to stand on your own two feet....and sink in the quicksand of a lifetime of debt"?

And is it fair that, say, a medical graduate who came from a poor background will pay very little in loan repayments once qualified - despite the capacity to earn a high wage, whilst a colleague with identical earnings could have to pay well over £100,000 over a lifetime (due to loans for tuition, maintenance and interest)?

All good points imho. Additionally, I have no idea how fed up a family will feel if they earn £26k!!!

melancholly

the sad thing is that we've ended up with what everyone predicted.... 'good' unis are all charging the top amount and the only ones to announce that they'll be below that aren't necessarily worth the money..... (the only one at around £6K sits at the bottom of all league tables!). at least all the info should be out soon. it's about time everything was clear and laid out!

i guess at least there will be more funding for UTCs, so a degree won't be the be-all-and-end-all. although i wonder why a restructure where old polytechnics moved back towards vocational training wouldn't have killed two birds with one stone....

The_One_Who

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I'm amazed that there are people who think that helping children from poorer families is "unfair" to those who are well off! Obviously the word means different things to different people!

That's what I was thinking too. Although, how are the 'poor' being defined? If it is those who get free school meals (as was previously put forward) then I'm sorry but I cannot agree with that. There are many, many families who are just as poor as those getting free meals yet do not qualify because the family works.

devildog wrote: »

If a degree is worth so much to students and is said to increase their job prospects so equaling their chances at employment why should student A start working life with a far lower debt than student B?

Somehow the system needs to be looked at so that students are on a 'level playing field'when they graduate. The unfairness comes from the fact that one student has to repay far more when a degree should give them equal opportunities in the working world.

Students are already on different playing fields though, with poorer students getting more help. Of course the disparity is not quite as obvious at the moment, but it is there.

Does a degree automatically level the playing field of employment for students from different backgrounds? I'm not sure.

Things will never be fair and level, not at any point in their lives. Poorer children tend to have fewer life-enriching experiences, whether it be holidays, trips to museums, school trips or opportunities to take up a sport or activity. All of these things will have an impact in their futures.