Dla to be replaced by pip

Indie_Kid

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

However I am very worried that the only way I will be able to attend a medical will be to wait until I have a day when I am able to leave the house - which by definition will be a day when I am more likely to be able to perform the tests.

Same here. I don't even know when those days are - I have weeks where I have no issues at all and others where I have nothing but problems.

Mojisola

sh1305 wrote: »

Same here. I don't even know when those days are - I have weeks where I have no issues at all and others where I have nothing but problems.

This is the problem with so many illnesses. It's not a case of being fit for work for four hours a day and not for the rest of the day. The bad days are unpredictable and may be a day or several days or even several weeks at a time.

I have run my own company in the past and someone with health problems like this is not employable.

The software doesn't seem to allow for wide variables like this. The answers required seem to be yes or no.

The experience of our ME group is that any explanations given during the medical about not being fit enough to do these things time after time are just ignored and the report seems to be given priority over whatever was filled in on the original forms.

petrolhead.

Brassedoff wrote: »

That will be a good thing for those with pyhscal disabilities, those who I believe will lose out will be the ones with mental illnesses, depression etc for example will probably not be seen as a long term thing (I know it can last years and be very severe) and the DWP/NHS be forced/then give the right support to get these groups back into work.

I assume the amount of Blue Badges/motability cars will drop down as a result of the large volume of refusals, downgrades or short term catigorising of illnesses with this new system as many who get this benefit without physical disabilities or long term illnesses will no longer qualify?

Yes mental illness is a thing on its own. There will always be a grey area when things are possible and when they are not.
However, I do know from personal experience that even with mental illness there are many times that some work can be undertaken. In the past a lot of emphasis was placed on 'therapeutic work' in which case it could be argued that it could be replaced with paid work.

Yes it will certainly mean a large reduction in Blue Badges & Mobility Cars. That can't be a bad thing really. It has become a standing joke nowadays, that many try to get DLA for the knock on benefits that come with it. OK yes there will still be some that are severe enough to warrant a car, but the number of claimants currently entitled to one, is really a national joke. The numbers should be reduced to only those that have mobility needs 24/7 and can prove it! Those with variable conditions by definition have better times and bad times, so why should they have the same level of benefit as someone who is 24/7 disabled?
And I think we have to move away from the link most try to prove that being ill or having a condition is exactly the same as being disabled. It isn't, you can be ill but not disabled, and likewise be well but be disabled. There is no link and the sooner that is sorted out the better!

Indie_Kid

petrolhead. wrote: »

The numbers should be reduced to only those that have mobility needs 24/7 and can prove it!

To get DLA, you currently need help for at least on average 5 days a week. I receive LRM because I need help outdoors. I don't know about anyone else, but I personally have no reason to go out at 2am on a Thursday morning. Does this mean (going by your logic) I shouldn't get DLA / PIP, because I don't have mobility needs 24/7?

Those with variable conditions by definition have better times and bad times, so why should they have the same level of benefit as someone who is 24/7 disabled?

Right, so someone who has maybe one or two good days a month should be unable to go out the rest of the time? Generally, on an average week, I need help 7 days a week and on better weeks, maybe only 5. Should I lose my benefits because I sometimes have a few good days? DLA is the difference between me going out and me having to stay in. If it wasn't for DLA, there is no way I would be able to get to work and back home again. (Parents work most evenings) If I stay in, I still need help. I'm lucky right now if I can get dressed without injuring myself.

I am disabled 24/7. Yet, I don't always need help doing things. There are some things I can never do though.

And I think we have to move away from the link most try to prove that being ill or having a condition is exactly the same as being disabled. It isn't, you can be ill but not disabled, and likewise be well but be disabled. There is no link and the sooner that is sorted out the better!

What has that got to with DLA? It doesn't matter what's wrong with you, you just need to prove that as a result of an illness or disability, you have care and /or mobility needs and you need help from another person because of this.

petrolhead.

cit_k wrote: »

If you ignore legislation, you dont certainly would not need a specialist to use LIMA (the software the assessor uses), pretty much anyone computer literate to a basic degree could use it.

If you want a accurate medical report, a specialist would be best.



Not really, you can factually and truthfully say or demonstrate that you cannot do something, and the assessor, or even the software could disagree.

In any case, the descriptors are not what ATOS look at really, they look at any old thing to try to fit the evidence around the descriptors, instead of actually looking properly to see if you fit the descriptors.



Because a nurse for example may not have the skills to be able to safely disagree with what a claimaints states or demonstrates, a specialist would be in a much better position to state the claimaint was pulling a fast one.



Its worse, as the descriptors are badly implemented and badly analysed at asssessment... The software needs binning.

I'm sorry but I think you are viewing your illness in a very narrow way.

This is never going to happen. You cannot and should not expect to have a specialist also trained in occupational health review you for work potential.
Everybody has different illnesses and conditions for a start. What about those that have complex problems? A queue of specialists waiting to review you in respect of each particular illness or condition. Come on, that is so totally unreasonable.

The assessor may not be interested in answers other than yes or no, but link that to your ESA50 and you have the full picture!

Have you never thought of the fact that the assessor may not believe what you are saying?
It is so easy to 'act' the sickness/illness. They have a hell of a job in trying to weed out the honest from the dishonest!

petrolhead.

cit_k wrote: »

When you fill in your form, it first goes to atos who do a pre board medical on you (via your form info) and that is sent to the decision maker, it recommends to them if you need an assessment or should pass into one of the esa groups automatically....

I would be shocked if decision makers bothered reading ESA forms, same with ATOS, in fact, I know ATOS didnt on my last one...

Hi, I thought this thread was about the new PIP? Not a rant about how ESA is implemented.

Still, Yes you are right, it is assessed first to see if you can go straight to one of the groups. Those that can't be done that way, they assess you.

I'm sorry but I cannot believe that the DWP just ignore the ESA50. They actually certify that they have used it to come to the decision. Maybe someone on here from the DWP could confirm or deny your allegation.

Indie_Kid

petrolhead. wrote: »

What about those that have complex problems?

I have complex problems. One of the first things my neurologist was about my sight issues - because it's on my notes (going back to 2007) that this is a possible cause of my neck and shoulder issues. There is no way an ATOS doctor would know that. In fact, I would be very surprised if an ATOS doctor understood any of my diagnoses.

petrolhead.

sh1305 wrote: »

To get DLA, you currently need help for at least on average 5 days a week. I receive LRM because I need help outdoors. I don't know about anyone else, but I personally have no reason to go out at 2am on a Thursday morning. Does this mean (going by your logic) I shouldn't get DLA / PIP, because I don't have mobility needs 24/7?



Right, so someone who has maybe one or two good days a month should be unable to go out the rest of the time? Generally, on an average week, I need help 7 days a week and on better weeks, maybe only 5. Should I lose my benefits because I sometimes have a few good days? DLA is the difference between me going out and me having to stay in. If it wasn't for DLA, there is no way I would be able to get to work and back home again. (Parents work most evenings) If I stay in, I still need help. I'm lucky right now if I can get dressed without injuring myself.

I am disabled 24/7. Yet, I don't always need help doing things. There are some things I can never do though.



What has that got to with DLA? It doesn't matter what's wrong with you, you just need to prove that as a result of an illness or disability, you have care and /or mobility needs and you need help from another person because of this.

As I said - a narrow view.

All you are saying is that under current DLA regulations you do get money, so why should it change?

It has to change to take account of medical practices that evolved over the past 15/20 years for a start.

People intent on claiming DLA have learnt how to 'beat' the system. The time has come to lose those that see it as a free ride. If that means making it harder for everybody to get the new PIP - sobeit. It's a price that everybody has to pay.

If you are genuine then provided you still need care 24/7 (not some days and not others) then you have nothing to worry about.

petrolhead.

sh1305 wrote: »

I have complex problems. One of the first things my neurologist was about my sight issues - because it's on my notes (going back to 2007) that this is a possible cause of my neck and shoulder issues. There is no way an ATOS doctor would know that. In fact, I would be very surprised if an ATOS doctor understood any of my diagnoses.

He's not interested!! All he wants to know is - can you carry out any of the descriptors?

Many people have complex problems yet manage to cope with life.

The rest of the info should be on your ESA50 - variables, explanations, examples, history etc. The Assessor does not need to know any of this. He is looking at you at that particular time.
Add the two bits of evidence together and the Decision Maker has the full picture.

Surely that's simple enough to understand.

petrolhead.

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

petrolhead. wrote: »

My example was a 30 hour week. For ESA purposes, being able to work for 2/3rds and be unable to work for 1/3rd would lead to being found fit for work.

What about people like me who can be bed-bound for two or three weeks at a time, needing 24 hours care, yet on other days I can drive my car and walk to the shops.

My condition comes on without warning - I can literally go to bed fine one night and be unable to get out of bed the next morning. I can be out of the house and feel myself becoming ill and HAVE to get home immediately.

I was forced to retire early from a profession that I loved and in which I was a high earner. Fortunately this enabled me to put some savings away, which are rapidly disappearing. Does anyone really think I would choose to survive on benefits if I was capable of returning to my former lifestyle????

Yes I do some permitted work - I work on average about 4 hours a week, from home giving employment law internet and telephone advice for a local company. But even this only works because they understand that sometimes they may have to wait a few weeks for contract drafting etc, because I can't risk doing that sort of work when I am unwell, owing to the risk of making mistakes, which is obviously not acceptable when working on legal documents.

At the moment I get HRC/HRM DLA and am exempt from the IB medical. However I am very worried that the only way I will be able to attend a medical will be to wait until I have a day when I am able to leave the house - which by definition will be a day when I am more likely to be able to perform the tests.

I am under three specialist consultants, all of whom have said that they will write reports explaining my conditions and why I am unable to work, but I am resigned to possibly having to sell my specially adapted house to release money to support myself, should the worst happen and I lose my benefits.

These are very worrying times. I have no faith in DWP or ATOS making the right decision in my case.

Thankyou.

I am very much like you. I have many days, nights, weeks that doing anything is painful. But again like you I have good days, weeks when I could work.
I have never claimed DLA, as I don't think that I have a disability, I may be ill, in fact seriously ill, but certainly not disabled by any stretch of the imagination. If I can't get out or get around, or need help with my care I know it is only temporary until the next period of time that I can get around, whereas being disabled is 24/7.

I can, like you work on the good days/weeks and for that reason I cannot in all honesty say that I am ill and unable to work!

The assessor saw that in me when I told him what my plans were for my future - like you, contracting professional work, working from home on the good days.

The DWP found me fit for work.

So now I have to plan and obtain that work which will help pay the bills and live off.
I know it is a bit hit and miss, given the times when I can and can't work, but at least it will keep me sane not having to sit down watching television all day!!