Employment Law - unpaid overtime

NikNox

Hi all, hope someone can help with this. My husband works for a small, but affluent company, and has done for the past 5 years. His boss is also the Managing Director of the company and there is no-one above him. My husband works very hard, but for all staff it's never good enough for their boss, so other members of staff have taken to staying late every evening (until 8-9) to try and get work done (they're very busy), and also to look good for pay rises and promotion. My husband's contracted hours are 9-5, as are everyone elses, and they are all expected to do this 'overtime' for no extra pay as the boss's argument is that they are salaried and not on hourly rates. We realise that effectively he is right, but can he insist on them doing this overtime, which amounts to an extra 20 hours per week in some cases, for no extra pay or time off in lieu?

Yesterday, my husband's boss told him he expects him to stay late every night (my husband currently leaves at 5) and asked him if his reasons for not staying late were because he was '!!!!! whipped' and 'under the thumb' at home, to which both my hubby and I took great offence. We do actually have a life outside of work! His boss told my husband that if he doesn't start staying late every night he will not be in the running for promotion or a pay rise next year.

Advice please!!!

Oldernotwiser

What work does your husband do and how much does he earn?

getmore4less

If the contract is a salaried job then this is fairly normal except this is probably more hours than is reasonable if ongoing.

So there is the threat, how often are there pomotions and pay rises anyway.

Is the company flexable in other ways.

Ask for time off as an alternative so you can be flexable when things are quiet. ( do this as a group if you can)


AIUI the only thing that would make this unlawfull would be minimun wage.

scooby088

I think that when standing together as a group you need to be strong as from personal working experience there are loads of spineless people who talk the talk but when push comes to shove they always back out.

teabelly

His contracted hours are 9 to 5. Tell him to start looking for another job. There is a difference between doing a few hours extra now and then and doing them all the time. Even if he did the extra hours I wouldn't expect the pay rise anyway! Boss sounds like a twerp and deserves to lose his staff.

If they're doing all this overtime all week then it takes them over the 48 hour max working week for a start. Then there is the possibility of it being illegal because of extra hours taking people below nmw.

He should persuade the others to stop being doormats. The MD needs a stern talking to so that more reasonable working arrangements can be made. If continued overtime is needed then more staff are required to do the work. By doing all the extra hours they will not get the extra help that is needed.

PasturesNew

Working more hours than contracted to, for free, has been my experience in most jobs I've done. And none of them were high paying or with any future potential or bonuses. You did it because the work had to be done and you'd lose your job if it weren't done. I've tended to average 10-15 hours' free overtime in many jobs... you just do it. However, my experience has also tended to show that doing all these hours doesn't help in the long run because the firms still fold.

teabelly

And the more the business relies on unpaid overtime the more precarious their position in my opinion. I'd take it as a warning sign of problems ahead.

NikNox

Thanks everyone. Don't want to post my husband's salary publicly, but it's in excess of £23k. He is an internal sales executive, but it's a product that sells itself so to speak, so no actual selling required. The company is approached by other, World renowned companies rather than them approaching anyone else.

Working practice is drachonian. They never take breaks, rarely have a lunch hour and no-one is allowed time off for GP or dental appointments. If, for example someone has an appt at say 4pm, meaning leaving work early, the boss insists they take a whole day off. Last year when it was snowy and some couldn't make it into work (my husband did, every day), he was making notes of those not attending and said he would dock them £100 off their yearly bonus for every day not in work. He also docks money off their bonuses if they are off sick.

My husband's colleagues get as sick of things as he does, but he always seems to be the spokesperson, stands up to the boss whilst the others in the office practically hide under their desks, so my husband does feel unsupported by his colleagues. The boss expects them to do this unpaid overtime every night of the week. They have a cost of living pay rise every year, last year it amounted to an extra £30 per month, so not exactly huge. They all get a bonus too, which is usually around £3-4k.

I have told my husband to get another job, or at least look for one, and he has been doing that but will not leave this job until he has another one to go to, for obvious reasons.

He just feels that he should not be penalised, nor should his colleagues, for refusing to work until 8-9pm every night of the week and certainly shouldn't be threatened for not doing so. I have suggested that he stays late a couple of nights a week to show willing, which he will do, but he still thinks that won't be good enough.

NikNox

The company is doing very well, they are stacked out with orders. I work for the NHS and am paid hourly, so any overtime I do is paid. My husband does understand that at times you have to put in more hours than contracted, but they have needed someone else in the office for a long time now as they have got much busier, and have pointed this out to their boss.

I have suggested to him that if they all start 'working to rule', i.e. taking breaks and ensuring they all have a full hour for lunch, and if their boss doesn't complain about this (but he will) then they may feel better about doing the odd bit of overtime. I think the main problem is that this extra 3-4 hours per day is expected of them and they are threatened with no pay rise or promotion if they don't do it.

scooby088

What is needed is all you OH colleagues stick together, i for one have experience of standing upto managing directors and owners and have found those who voice their opinion in private are the ones that back down all the time.

Like you have suggested work to the contract of employment, it may state a reasonable level of overtime is required, but on the whole what some regard as reasonable others may not. And by your OH colleagues doing the 3/4 hours overtime daily then the owner would not get anyone else in to do some of the work, why would he when he's getting for free from his other employees already.

Get your OH to read his contract see what is says in there and just work to those guidelines but usually it does make provision for breaks aswell as overtime too. And i am sure if your OH reminds his employer that every 6 hours you are entitled to a 20 min break and is breaking the law i am sure he will soon back down.

NikNox

My point to my husband last night was that his boss isn't going to get anyone new in when his staff are working overtime every night!! If he has 4 members of staff working an extra 3-4 hours per evening each, every night, then that amounts to a new member of staff on a 40+ hour week for free!! They do have breaks contracted but never take them because of workload. I have a feeling though that if they all down tools for a morning and afternoon break, ensure they have their contracted 1 hour for lunch then he may come round. Sometimes you have to play these people at their own game don't you!