Immoral_angel's Debt Diary

Snaggles

Thanks ZTD, I wish I could put things as clearly as you do

I do feel guilty sometimes, but not to the point where it's an issue, if you see what I mean (ie, I wouldn't go back into debt just to buy him the latest gadget, and if I felt really awful for saying no, I would just tell him so).

I was just trying to make the point that I know exactly how Immoral feels when she says she finds it difficult to say no to Steve buying something new, because I feel the same way sometimes, particularly now I'm just sitting at home on my bum all day, while he's out working 44 hour weeks at work. (I know, I know, I'm doing an important job too.....but I still feel the 'Mother's Guilt' about everything )

Spendless

ZTD wrote: »

You mean ask the same question but dress it up in more words/flowery language? Seems a bit like the Victorians trying to talk about toilets without using the word "toilet". I mean ask the same question whilst acknowleding that finances are both partners responsibility.

Ideally - except it isn't his department, so he's asking the person whose department it is. Just like if Snaggles wanted (for some reason) to know how much ironing there was to, she'd go to the head of the ironing department and ask... Apart from this is different, some people can manage without owning an iron, therefore you don't both need to know about it. You can't manage without cash


Would it be ideal if a more active role was played in the ironing department too? See above, my husband also does all the ironing



This is horses for courses. People do things differently. It seems to work apart from Snaggles feels guilty when she gets asked.

But that is the whole point. I am trying to suggest ways so Snaggles doesn't feel guilty. Of course if she likes feeling guilty then that is different.:p

barnaby-bear

Snaggles wrote: »

He has his sole account that has 'his' spending money for the month (and I also have my sole account with 'my' spending money in it), so he doesn't avoid using money - but he knows that the money in his own account doesn't impact on the budget, as it's already accounted for.

So I suppose he does have a limited amount of responsibility, but the only damage he could do (if he did lose track of how much he had left) is to run up a small overdraft, which we could cope with. I honestly think he likes it this way, but I will ask him when he gets home.

PS I know how to change a tyre , but I'm physically not strong enough to do it because they tighten them up with a machine at Kwik Fit, and I can't get the...um....nuts (?) undone. :rolleyes:

If it works financially then of course it's the best thing, however I can see why he'd have far less interest in budgeting, there's no responsibility or burden upon him, he asks - someone else makes decision, he's disconnected from decisions, the money he spends has no influence upon the situation, it's a separate bubble. The satisfaction from cheating the banks out of interest is all yours but so to is the burden .

ZTD

Spendless wrote: »

I mean ask the same question whilst acknowleding that finances are both partners responsibility.

Snaggles doesn't feel guilt because he's asked whether he can have something, she feels guilt because he can't. No amount of dressing up of the question will change that. So - how do you get over that?

1. You never deprive him of anything
2. You forbid him from ever letting on that he'd like something

Obviously 1 is how people get into debt in the first place.

Number 2 is the breeding ground for resentment - on both sides. People have differing ideas on how much money you need to "afford" something. In fact the whole idea of preventing communication in order that one side should never "feel bad" is a short cut to hell.

Spendless wrote: »

Apart from this is different, some people can manage without owning an iron, therefore you don't both need to know about it. You can't manage without cash

You can manage without cash - Barnaby-Bear gave examples earlier on. You may say it doesn't apply in this case - but the "survive without an iron" doesn't apply in this case either. So no - it's not different.

Spendless wrote: »

But that is the whole point. I am trying to suggest ways so Snaggles doesn't feel guilty. Of course if she likes feeling guilty then that is different.

There are worse things. I can't recall any relationship breakup where someone said "If only we'd communicated LESS, we'd have come through this." Which is what you are suggesting - that he doesn't say as much.

The idea that one side never says anything to make the other side feel bad, is superficially attractive, but it ends where there are so many unresolved (and unresolveable because they'd make the other person feel bad) issues that the relationship shatters into fragments.

Then one side is pleading with the other "Why won't you talk to me?" when in fact the simple answer is "Because that's what you wanted.", but of course they can't be told that - because they would feel bad.

The occaisional feeling of guilt is much more desirable than that feeling of desperation when someone walks out of your life taking with them all of your dreams, and you don't know why, because your campaign to get them to shut up has been so successful.

At least in my experience.

IainBUK

Immoral Angel

I live in Staffordshire aswell, just outside Stafford in Rugeley

Snaggles

ZTD wrote: »

The occaisional feeling of guilt is much more desirable than that feeling of desperation when someone walks out of your life taking with them all of your dreams, and you don't know why, because your campaign to get them to shut up has been so successful.

At least in my experience.

That actually brought real tears to my eyes, it was so heartfelt. You do have a way with words ZTD.

I hope it hasn't come across as though our relationship is being destroyed by my guilt - it really isn't. If I ever felt that hubby was asking for things knowing there was no way we could afford them, just to make me feel bad, then believe me I would speak up.

ZTD

Snaggles wrote: »

That actually brought real tears to my eyes, it was so heartfelt. You do have a way with words ZTD.

I hope it hasn't come across as though our relationship is being destroyed by my guilt - it really isn't. If I ever felt that hubby was asking for things knowing there was no way we could afford them, just to make me feel bad, then believe me I would speak up.

I would point out though - it was me that shut up, and it was her that lost the ability to make her dreams come true. I've still not been able to tell her what was wrong with things - but she has subsequently done something that makes any real form of reconcilliation impossible.

I must be getting better at communicating, because she knows the conequence of what she has done.

Snaggles

ZTD wrote: »

I would point out though - it was me that shut up, and it was her that lost the ability to make her dreams come true. I've still not been able to tell her what was wrong with things - but she has subsequently done something that makes any real form of reconcilliation impossible.

I must be getting better at communicating, because she knows the conequence of what she has done.

I'm sorry to hear that. If I was called ZTD I would have something wise and helpful to say..... but I'm not, so I'll just say I'm sorry, and that I'm pretty sure it's her loss, despite how it feels to you at the moment.

ZTD

Snaggles wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear that. If I was called ZTD I would have something wise and helpful to say..... but I'm not, so I'll just say I'm sorry, and that I'm pretty sure it's her loss, despite how it feels to you at the moment.

It is both of our losses. But, if it prompts anybody to have a little more tolerance for what their OH has to say, and not go down that route as well - then I guess that's something.

So when your OH asks for a 96 pack of lager that nobody else can stand (with matching football) - at least he's talking to you...

Snaggles

A 96 pack??? Does such a thing exist???

(And if it does, shhhhhhh, please don't tell my hubby :rotfl:)