Early-retirement wannabe

Marine_life

bigadaj wrote: »

How's it being viewed in Germany?

Obviously a wide range of opinions but what do your friends and colleagues make of it all?

A mixture of incredulity and sadness.

Incredulity because of the lack of a plan for a potential out vote (despite know this was always a possibility).

Sadness because I think a lot of people genuinely see the 'European Project' as a way to nurture a society which recognizes our cultural diversity but seeks to provide a common basis for people to live and work and operate with a consistent set of reciprocal rules. I think those principles seem to have now become a little lost and muddled in a bunch of political posturing and protest voting.

uk1

Marine_life wrote: »

A mixture of incredulity and sadness.

Incredulity because of the lack of a plan for a potential out vote (despite know this was always a possibility).

Sadness because I think a lot of people genuinely see the 'European Project' as a way to nurture a society which recognizes our cultural diversity but seeks to provide a common basis for people to live and work and operate with a consistent set of reciprocal rules. I think those principles seem to have now become a little lost and muddled in a bunch of political posturing and protest voting.

I think some of the argument on both sides continually projected polarised views on their opponents. I think many or most exiters shared the cultural capital aspirations, and I think there is an exeggerated view of how that will change after an exit.

We will still be Europeans and most things will not change.

Jeff

gfplux

Marine_life wrote: »

A mixture of incredulity and sadness.

Incredulity because of the lack of a plan for a potential out vote (despite know this was always a possibility).

Sadness because I think a lot of people genuinely see the 'European Project' as a way to nurture a society which recognizes our cultural diversity but seeks to provide a common basis for people to live and work and operate with a consistent set of reciprocal rules. I think those principles seem to have now become a little lost and muddled in a bunch of political posturing and protest voting.

Luxembourgers see the EU the same way.
Their reaction to the vote has been SHOCK and SURPRISE.
I felt I had to assure my Nordic Walking group this morning that I voted to stay.
My impression is that the ordinary voter here will want the Politicians to work swiftly to give the UK its wish to get out. If that is a hard and unpleasant deal for the British, so be it. They are the ones who want the divorce.

Marine_life

gfplux wrote: »

My impression is that the ordinary voter here will want the Politicians to work swiftly to give the UK its wish to get out

Agree. Although I think the definition of what "getting out" means is actually very unclear and therein now is the problem.

Tromking

gfplux wrote: »

Luxembourgers see the EU the same way.
Their reaction to the vote has been SHOCK and SURPRISE.
I felt I had to assure my Nordic Walking group this morning that I voted to stay.
My impression is that the ordinary voter here will want the Politicians to work swiftly to give the UK its wish to get out. If that is a hard and unpleasant deal for the British, so be it. They are the ones who want the divorce.

Blow me!
Let's not upset the Luxembourgers!!! ��

jamesd

gfplux wrote: »

My impression is that the ordinary voter here will want the Politicians to work swiftly to give the UK its wish to get out. If that is a hard and unpleasant deal for the British, so be it. They are the ones who want the divorce.

I wouldn't want to be betting any money on a rapid notice. With things like the Polish proposal to shift the EU power balance and elections pending in both France and Germany in 2017 there's ample reason to give more time for the rest of the people of Europe to consider why this happened and whether it's worth trying to deal with the causes both now and in their own electoral processes.

The three EU leaders today with their emphasis on things for young people seem to be trying to ignore what happened, since young people were mostly for remain. They seem to be more more addressing the risk of radical young people in their own countries who might vote them out of office, or use violence, not the cause of this event.

Personally I'll be hoping for enough change that it becomes justifiable to credibly offer a second referendum on the basis that it's for a different EU from the one that produced the leave result.

westv

The England team should be early retirement wannabes.

bigadaj

westv wrote: »

The England team should be early retirement wannabes.

Well they can certainly afford it.

Apparently Roy hodgson is a front runner for the new prime minister, apparently he's good at getting us out of Europe!

gfplux

Tromking wrote: »

Blow me!
Let's not upset the Luxembourgers!!! ��

I was trying to add to the conversation. What in particular do you dislike about Luxembourger. Is it that they are foreign!

Marine_life

jamesd wrote: »

I wouldn't want to be betting any money on a rapid notice. With things like the Polish proposal to shift the EU power balance and elections pending in both France and Germany in 2017 there's ample reason to give more time for the rest of the people of Europe to consider why this happened and whether it's worth trying to deal with the causes both now and in their own electoral processes.

The three EU leaders today with their emphasis on things for young people seem to be trying to ignore what happened, since young people were mostly for remain. They seem to be more more addressing the risk of radical young people in their own countries who might vote them out of office, or use violence, not the cause of this event.

Personally I'll be hoping for enough change that it becomes justifiable to credibly offer a second referendum on the basis that it's for a different EU from the one that produced the leave result.

I am not sure why the negotiations should take that long as I imagine the conversation will go something like this:

Boris Johnson: "Can we please have access to the free market, pay less for it and reduce immigration"
EU official: "Seriously?"
BoJo: "Yes"
EU official "No"
Bojo: "oh"

It may be a slightly longer discussion than that but I have paraphrased.

Of course Boris will point to the fact that he has a democratic mandate from the people. And of course he is right...and we know that the EU has great respect for the outcome of referendums. Remember Greece?.....oh wait....:p

So I expect we will quickly conclude that what was 'promised' by the Brexiters is not deliverable and either we will have a referendum (unlikely) or we will have a general election where each of the parties sets out a clear position on Europe (and most likely we end up with a lib dem government).