Early-retirement wannabe

bigadaj

Marine_life wrote: »

In my view very likely.

The lib dems have already come out and said they would take the UK back into the EU http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/lib-dems-pledge-british-return-eu-next-general-election which could actually be a very shrewd move politically.

Certainly could be, there's so little to distinguish parties currently. I don't think there much doubt that an element of the leave vote was just directed at the consensus from all the politicians and the contempt with which they are held by parts of the population.

The lib demos record on implementing their promises is obviously open to question, but given they have little else to distinguish themselves then it's a punt, and their supporters are probably the only group who were largely in favour of remain.

gadgetmind

Marine_life wrote: »

The lib dems have already come out and said they would take the UK back into the EU

Just to be clear, is this before or after they scrap tuition fees?

Marine_life

gadgetmind wrote: »

Just to be clear, is this before or after they scrap tuition fees?

I am sure that very question would be raised during an election campaign.

robin61

The British people have called the EU' s bluff. They played hard ball when Cameron went cap in hand thinking the British people would play it safe and vote Remain. They underestimated the level of discontentment towards the establishment in general and the EU in particular.
The uncertainty is now hurting the EU as much or maybe even more than it is hurting the UK and that is not in anybody's best interests. I really believe that we will be offered a free trade only membership of the EU without the political interference. Take no notice of the unelected Eurocrats who are talking about messy divorces, traitors to EU Federalism etc. The leaders of the other countries in the EU are answerable to their electorate unlike the Eurocrats and cannot afford to see our economy and theirs disintegrate.
I expect to see the outline of an agreement sooner rather than later to calm
the markets and the fine details to be agreed later.
I really believe we will end up with what I think most of us wanted in the first place friendly co-operation and free trade without political interference. Other countries might well follow the same path as the UK.
If they want the EU to survive it is the pragmatic and sensible way forward.

Marine_life

robin61 wrote: »

They underestimated the level of discontentment towards the establishment in general and the EU in particular.

The fact that the most popular search on google after the Brexit vote was announced was "what is the EU" suggest that there are a significant number of people (on both sides of the debate) who have no clue (and probably no interest in understanding) exactly what influence (positive and negative) the EU has on the UK.

A lot of people have talked about EU laws being imposed from unelected bureaucrats which is only partially true as our MEPs have a significant influence and Britain has already shown that it can opt out a number of those areas of EU integration that it finds most difficult to swallow (Schengen, EURO etc.), so I would be curious to know whether any voter can say which laws they actually disagree with (but I suspect I know what the answer will be).

The main issue here is that putting a decision of this magnitude to a public referendum without a solid plan for both potential outcomes is reckless in the extreme and we must now all hope that someone (or some people) are working very hard to restore order very quickly.

rpc

Marine_life wrote: »

I don't disagree with the rule of democracy - if the government is daft enough to put the issue to the vote then it has to be prepared to deal with consequences and implement a solution.

Personally (having also gone through the Scottish palava), I don't think referendums are equivalent to democracy. The tyranny of the majority is not a good way to run a country and we should stop at electing our representatives.

What we should take from this is that the country is badly split and some third way is needed to heal the divisions. I hope that will emerge and I think either it will be implemented as a soft-Brexit (outside the EU but with little practical difference) or another referendum on the deal. Of course, our dear Nicola is concluding that the best way to fix a divided society is by dividing it some more...

gadgetmind wrote: »

I actually think the process is now essential and will be a positive step for the EU. Once other EU member states see the damage that Brexit will do to our currency, our economy, and our international reputation, plus the rise in open and deeply-unpleasant racism and the rise of the far right that it is already causing, then they will understand why they need the EU.

Of course, we'll still be deeply screwed, but I think that fate is inevitable and unavoidable.

I think this may lead to some reform in the EU so Britain's place (either in or out) is hopefully not actually hurt that much.

Of course, getting anything other than an insolvent mess out of this will require good leadership in parliament and we don't have a lot of that. The obvious candidates seem to be on the run.

bigadaj

Marine_life wrote: »

The fact that the most popular search on google after the Brexit vote was announced was "what is the EU" suggest that there are a significant number of people (on both sides of the debate) who have no clue (and probably no interest in understanding) exactly what influence (positive and negative) the EU has on the UK.

A lot of people have talked about EU laws being imposed from unelected bureaucrats which is only partially true as our MEPs have a significant influence and Britain has already shown that it can opt out a number of those areas of EU integration that it finds most difficult to swallow (Schengen, EURO etc.), so I would be curious to know whether any voter can say which laws they actually disagree with (but I suspect I know what the answer will be).

The main issue here is that putting a decision of this magnitude to a public referendum without a solid plan for both potential outcomes is reckless in the extreme and we must now all hope that someone (or some people) are working very hard to restore order very quickly.

How's it being viewed in Germany?

Obviously a wide range of opinions but what do your friends and colleagues make of it all?

uk1

Marine_life wrote: »

A lot of people have talked about EU laws being imposed from unelected bureaucrats which is only partially true as our MEPs have a significant influence and Britain has already shown that it can opt out a number of those areas of EU integration that it finds most difficult to swallow (Schengen, EURO etc.), so I would be curious to know whether any voter can say which laws they actually disagree with (but I suspect I know what the answer will be).

The EU Parliament doesn't propose laws so I cannot see how MEPs have "significant influence". It would be more accurate to describe it as "insignificant influence" wouldn't it.

There are many laws I disagree with,

I have taken umbrage for example with the law making vacuum cleaners of over 900 watts illegal to manufacture and sell from 2017 onwards.

I am also incandescent with rage about candescent lights :eek:
1st September 2009 Phase-out of clear 100W and above incandescent bulbs.
Non-clear (frosted/pearl) bulbs require an ‘A’ energy rating (effectively meaning they must be CFL or LED).
1st September 2010 Phase-out of 75W clear incandescent bulbs.
1st September 2011 Phase-out of 60W clear incandescent bulbs.
1st September 2012 Phase-out of all remaining clear incandescent bulbs (i.e. 40W and 25W).
24th February 2016 Phase-out of some bulbs previously defined as special purpose, including incandescent rough service bulbs, high/low temperature bulbs and clear glass decorative filament bulbs (tinted glass models still permitted).
1st September 2016 Phase-out of directional mains-voltage halogen bulbs (i.e. GU10, PAR, R-type).
1st September 2018 Phase-out of non-directional halogen bulbs (i.e. candle, GLS, globe, golf ball).

And don't talk to me about what those nasty big olive oil companies nearly did to the small artisan producers.





Jeff

Marine_life

uk1 wrote: »

The EU Parliament doesn't propose laws so I cannot see how MEPs have "significant influence". It would be more accurate to describe it as "insignificant influence" wouldn't it.

There are many laws I disagree with,

I have taken umbrage for example with the law making vacuum cleaners of over 900 watts illegal to manufacture and sell from 2017 onwards.

I am also incandescent with rage about candescent lights :eek:
1st September 2009 Phase-out of clear 100W and above incandescent bulbs.
Non-clear (frosted/pearl) bulbs require an ‘A’ energy rating (effectively meaning they must be CFL or LED).
1st September 2010 Phase-out of 75W clear incandescent bulbs.
1st September 2011 Phase-out of 60W clear incandescent bulbs.
1st September 2012 Phase-out of all remaining clear incandescent bulbs (i.e. 40W and 25W).
24th February 2016 Phase-out of some bulbs previously defined as special purpose, including incandescent rough service bulbs, high/low temperature bulbs and clear glass decorative filament bulbs (tinted glass models still permitted).
1st September 2016 Phase-out of directional mains-voltage halogen bulbs (i.e. GU10, PAR, R-type).
1st September 2018 Phase-out of non-directional halogen bulbs (i.e. candle, GLS, globe, golf ball).

And don't talk to me about what those nasty big olive oil companies nearly did to the small artisan producers.





Jeff

You don't own a company that makes and sells light bulbs and vacuum cleaners do you ;-)

uk1

Marine_life wrote: »

You don't own a company that makes and sells light bulbs and vacuum cleaners do you ;-)

No but I am fortunate enough to have two homes that have dimmer light circuits in them and had to stock up on these bleedin' bulbs.

I am now also the proud owner of four Miele 2200 watt vacuum cleaners - two of which are boxed and new and stored as backup because wifey insists that life as we know it will stop if she doesn't have a lifetime supply of these things.

Perhaps in a few years I might get a fortune on ebay for them withoput telling her.



Jeff