HMO-Sinks in every room-mandatory?

andym368

Hi
My wife and I have recently bought a 3 story Town House to enable our kids to get a foothold on the property ladder. Our Son lives in one bedroom with another 4 rooms let to tennants under the usual 6 month AST's. We have been told that the latest HMO regulations are now in force and this will mean we must provide washbasins with Hot and Cold running water in each bedroom. Does anyone know of any 'discretionary powers' or 'work arounds' that can be used. The property is only 3 years old and has 2 ensuites on the top floor a main bathroom on the middle floor, a downstairs wc and kitchen and utility with sinks. There is clearly enough washing facillities to go round or has the world gone mad? Our concern is that we will affect future resale by following this pointless excercise. Any advice or assistance greatly appreciated.

BobProperty

Might depend on local interpretation but I'm not into the current HMO rules as I'm no longer a landlord (and you wonder why? ). It is quite possible it is correct and you need washbasins in each bedroom. Fortunately, I know a plumber....:D
I wouldn't be worried about that, though, I'd be worried about the fire alarm system and the fire precautions.

Bossyboots

Page 7 here http://www.westminster.gov.uk/housing/multipleoccupancyhomes/upload/westminster%20FMO%20std%20_4_%2025 %2008 %2006.pdf confirms that with five people living in the house you will need wash basins in each room.

amboy

I run a few of these 3 storey houses let to 5 or more people, you are quite right in saying it is a stupid rule and even EHO do not think it is necessary, basically it was aimed at houses with 1 bathroom and toilet, initially the requirement was to provide 2 of each, but at the last minute the sinks in every room came in as this was a requirement in the old HMO regs.

This specific piece of legislation is absolutely moronic for your specific situation with the number of facilities you have but I have been told by the few housing officers I have spoken to thatthere is no discretion to be applied as it is legislation.

I know it would result in a drop in income but you could let only 4 rooms out.

Also a key consideration for you if you dont wish to let in the long term is Fire regs -

as you stand you will need
*fire doors and frames in every bedroom lounge and kitchen
*hard wired linked smoke alarms in every bedroom, lounge and heat detector in kitchen

* emergency lighting (recommended) escape routes
* fire extinguishers every landing
* fire blanket every kitchen

Obviously you should have already applied and have an HMo licence for your property.

I do know a lot of people however who used to have 1 bedroom on the third storey simply not use this part of the house anymore therefore it will not have to be licenced and a lot of the above wont apply.

HTH

Tassotti

Noticed a lot of HMOs coming up for auction over the past couple of months...You can see why

I am all for providing a property that is safe for tenants, but what I don't get is this :-

I rent out a 4 bed property to a family of 5 (2 adults and 3 kids) and have to provide NO safety measures at all.

I rent the same property to 5 sharers (one in lounge as bedroom) and suddenly, I have to spend 15-20K upgrading all the doors, fire escapes, etc.

What...are these sharers more prone to have bonfires in their bedrooms

barnaby-bear

amboy wrote:

I do know a lot of people however who used to have 1 bedroom on the third storey simply not use this part of the house anymore therefore it will not have to be licenced and a lot of the above wont apply.

HTH

I thought more than two storey you needed a fire escape.

TJ27

As a bloke who has to enforce these regulations, I have to agree that some of them are over the top. Luckily, here is Wales the one sink per bedroom thing does not apply. It seems that the Welsh Assembly Govt saw sense and took that bit out.

Quite rightly though, some people have said that the sinks are the least of your problems. Amboy has summarised some of the main requirements but there are others.

If the property is let to less than five, then it may not be licensable (but it might be.) It will however still be an HMO and the means of escape from fire requirements will still apply.

The regs are much more stringent for 3 storey houses and taking the third storey out of use might be an option. Many authorities might accept a declaration that the third storey will not be used, some might ask you to remove the stairs, some might ask you to take out a loft conversion altogether (If that's what the third storey is.) But if you then start using it again, and the council find out, the fine is twenty thousand pounds.

Indeed if you've got a licensable property and have not licensed it, the (max) fine for not doing so is also twenty thousand pounds.

The reason that families are exempt is possibly because family members generally know where the other member of the family are. For example, mum and dad will probably know whether their son is in his bedroom or not. Groups of students, for example, probably won't. If there's a fire there are obvious advantages to knowing who's in the house. (But I have also been to properties where students have indeed had bonfires in their bedrooms!)

The statistics show that where fatalities have occurred, an overwhelming majority of them occurred on the top floor of a three storey house. So I do think it's proper to target these properties first. I think in years to come that some two storey houses will be targeted too.

It's a good idea to get in touch with your LA before they get in touch with you. But do be prepared for them to tell you that you need to upgrade.

suffolkb

Of course there should be a sink in each room. Do you expect them to go all the way to the toilet after a night on the beer?

PoorDave

suffolkb wrote:

Of course there should be a sink in each room. Do you expect them to go all the way to the toilet after a night on the beer?

As long as the windows open i don't think this is a problem!

Guy_Montag

PoorDave wrote:

As long as the windows open i don't think this is a problem!

Or just provide some plant pots.

barnaby-bear

andym368 wrote:

Hi
My wife and I have recently bought a 3 story Town House to enable our kids to get a foothold on the property ladder. Our Son lives in one bedroom with another 4 rooms let to tennants under the usual 6 month AST's. We have been told that the latest HMO regulations are now in force and this will mean we must provide washbasins with Hot and Cold running water in each bedroom. Does anyone know of any 'discretionary powers' or 'work arounds' that can be used. The property is only 3 years old and has 2 ensuites on the top floor a main bathroom on the middle floor, a downstairs wc and kitchen and utility with sinks. There is clearly enough washing facillities to go round or has the world gone mad? Our concern is that we will affect future resale by following this pointless excercise. Any advice or assistance greatly appreciated.

How did you get your HMO license? Without meeting the criteria - are they giving out licenses and ignoring them?