HMO-Sinks in every room-mandatory?

TJ27

Well sooz, as I've said, here in Wales the basin rule doesn't apply. As all my neighbouring councils are also in Wales, their policy is also likely to be that they don't ask for basins. So we've seen sense already. (I'm not sure where the dining room thing comes from. Is that a requirement too? I suspect not. Or am I reading something wrong?)

The reason I said that having basins might improve the resale value is because rented HMO's are generally sold on as rented HMO's and not as family homes. So if the work is already done, the new owner won't have to do it. I think most people would agree that an HMO which is already up to standard will generally be worth more that one which is not.

It's possible to provide specialist paints or veneers to "original" doors in order for them to meet the standard for fire doors, although it might be a bit pricey. Did you chuck to old doors out or hang on to them?

(Hang on, I've just read your post again. Disregard the bits of mine which make no real sense!)

amboy

barnaby-bear wrote:

I thought more than two storey you needed a fire escape.

bit confused to what you mean!!

As with any house you have a fire escape which is basically out the front door making sure escape routes are not blocked with bikes or furniture.

I think I am right in saying that the days of fire external ladders are gone, and all the measures you take for fire aid the escape or rather contain.

i was told by a EHO approx 5 years ago that a 30 minute fire door will keep you safe for 30 minutes in your room in which time it is assumed that the fire brigade will have put the fire out or rescued you.

Back to the OP, there are many councils who have given the full 5 years (length of licence) to have the sinks done, this is there way of hoping someone does see sense.

EdInvestor

Does it make any difference if the landlord is resident?

TJ27

Phew, you've got me thinking now! Yes it sometimes does make a difference but off the top of my head I couldn't give you specifics. I'd have to check when I'm in work.

If you're talking about a licensable 3 storey HMO, with five or more occupants, then no I don't think it'll make much difference.

If you're talking about a house in flats, some of which are owner occupied, then yes it might make a difference. But of course such properties will not be licensable, even though they might be HMO's. So they might need fireproofing but won't need loads of basins.

I'd phone your local council blokes and ask them though. You might have noticed that it's all a bit confusing and I wouldn't want to give you any incorrect information.

Sumostar

Hi

My local council are holding owners to getting the fire precautions done in 6 months but 5 years (the end of the license) to get the sinks done. They're hoping that someone will see sense and that the legislation will change.

kittiwoz

Have you considered letting the house as a shared house rather than an HMO? Presumably if you did that the regulations wouldn't apply.

barnaby-bear

kittiwoz wrote:

Have you considered letting the house as a shared house rather than an HMO? Presumably if you did that the regulations wouldn't apply.

You don't know your new HMO definition do you! 5 unrelated people - it's an HMO

kittiwoz

Aparently not. I thought if everyone was on the same contract and "jointly and soley" responsible for the whole rent or whatever the phrase is then it isn't an HMO. There are six of us in our house but one is a lodger and pays rent to the other tenants (the landlord okayed that). So does that make our house an HMO? Because as I understand it if that is the case those of us who aren't students should have their council tax assesed on the "share" of the property that they rent and not the whole property. Plus it is the landlord that's liable for the council tax and not us tenants althoughI believe he would be within his rights to recover it from us if there is something in our tenancy agreement to that effect which there may or may not be. That's what I read about council tax and HMOs on the student board though that would have been under the old definition. There used to be other differences between HMOs and shared houses from the tenant perspective too. A single TV license covered a shared house but you needed seperate licenses for an HMO. That one doesn't bother me because we don't watch telly but a lot of people over on the student board could be affected and the guidelines on the TV licensing website don't suggest anything has changed. I checked them recently when we decided not to renew our license. A major difference is that for shared houses it has always been the case that if one tenant were to leave mid-tenancy the others could be held liable and made to make up the shortfall but this was not the case for an HMO.

It seems like this new definition of an HMO should have effects on tenants too but I've heard nothing about it. Is it something shortly to come into force or has it come in recently? What does it mean for tenants? Is there a website someone could point me to that explains this stuff. Particularly this is of interest since one of me houseamtes will be leaving and we need to find a replacement. The guy who is leaving is happy to take responsibilty for his own rent until someone takes over his tenancy but it raises the possibility of a new contract/ changes to the tenancy and it would be good to know where we stand.

barnaby-bear

kittiwoz wrote:

Aparently not. I thought if everyone was on the same contract and "jointly and soley" responsible for the whole rent or whatever the phrase is then it isn't an HMO. There are six of us in our house but one is a lodger and pays rent to the other tenants (the landlord okayed that). So does that make our house an HMO? Because as I understand it if that is the case those of us who aren't students should have their council tax assesed on the "share" of the property that they rent and not the whole property. Plus it is the landlord that's liable for the council tax and not us tenants althoughI believe he would be within his rights to recover it from us if there is something in our tenancy agreement to that effect which there may or may not be. That's what I read about council tax and HMOs on the student board though that would have been under the old definition. There used to be other differences between HMOs and shared houses from the tenant perspective too. A single TV license covered a shared house but you needed seperate licenses for an HMO. That one doesn't bother me because we don't watch telly but a lot of people over on the student board could be affected and the guidelines on the TV licensing website don't suggest anything has changed. I checked them recently when we decided not to renew our license. A major difference is that for shared houses it has always been the case that if one tenant were to leave mid-tenancy the others could be held liable and made to make up the shortfall but this was not the case for an HMO.

It seems like this new definition of an HMO should have effects on tenants too but I've heard nothing about it. Is it something shortly to come into force or has it come in recently? What does it mean for tenants? Is there a website someone could point me to that explains this stuff. Particularly this is of interest since one of me houseamtes will be leaving and we need to find a replacement. The guy who is leaving is happy to take responsibilty for his own rent until someone takes over his tenancy but it raises the possibility of a new contract/ changes to the tenancy and it would be good to know where we stand.

The new HMO and housing standards provisions will be effective from the 6thApril 2006 – with a three month amnesty period.• From 6thJuly 2006 all liable HMO Landlords who haven’t applied for a licence will face • Enforcement measures including fines of up to £20,000

Unless you are related you are separate households - the only exception being 2 person flat-shares.
What is an HMO?
HMO stands for House in Multiple Occupation. The definition is now split into a number of areas.

Simplified definition of HMO
An HMO is a building or part of building (flat) which is

a) Is occupied by more than one household.

AND

b) At least one of the households shares or lacks access to a basic amenity ("basic amenities" means a toilet; personal washing facilities; or cooking facilities)

AND

c) Occupation by the households is as their main residence

AND

d) It is the sole residential use of the accommodation.

This includes bedsits, houses partly converted into self-contained flats, hostels, accommodation above shops and shared houses and flats.

In addition Where the building is fully converted into self-contained flats IF the conversion work does NOT comply with the building standard of the 1991 Building Regulations AND less than 2/3rd of the flats are occupied by long leaseholders, this type of building is still an HMO.

What is a household?

A household is now defined as occupiers of the same family and includes spouses, co-habitees, same sex couples and any blood relative.


http://www.westminster.gov.uk/housing/multipleoccupancyhomes/

They got rid of anything to do with contracts etc - basically if more than 2 people unrelated and not having sex live there you are an HMO - the new deifnitions came in to rid them of contractually technically not HMOs

Tassotti

Gonna tell my tenants that they must start having sex with each other so I can avoid HMO rules