John Lewis ripping me off: please help.

gyzmo

withabix wrote:

Read their terms and conditions properly.

You aren't trying to return it beacuse it is faulty or noisy. You are trying to return it because you now find that you can't afford it.

You don't have a right to return goods unless they are faulty.

You have NO rights under the DSR just because you have subsequently decided that you can't afford it after using it.

You will probably have to take the £150 loss, keep the laptop or sell it on eBay. If the JLP price was good, you might even make a profit. I have in the past.

If you disagree with me, think about what YOU would do if someone bought a brand new laptop from you, opened it, set it up and then decided they didn't want it.

Would YOU refund them 100% of the purchase price??? I think not.

Or, how would YOU feel if you ordered a brand new laptop for £700 from JLP and found that it had been used when it arrived? That's what you are asking JLP to do - ie sell a used laptop to somoene else for the full price as NEW.

So, tell me again, WHY should JLP not deduct 20% of the price???

I think they are being quite reasonable personally.

You have a right to return goods even if they are not faulty. What if they are not as described? Or not suitable for purpose?

I would not dismiss the DSR so lightly, it is a powerful piece of legislation, and sellers have difficulty following it. It is worth checking to see if they have complied. If not, then you have the right of return.

If you want to have a look at the DSR, a good start is here: http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/general/shop_home/fs_y01.shtml

or for those of a legal (and sadistic) mindset, here: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm

HugoRune_2

You repacked and photographed it all in case you had to return it, then the incident happened that you couldnt afford it?
Sounds like you had already decided to return it before the incident

klondyke

When you rang the store to check on your rights in the first place, did they record the call? If so, get them to listen to it and honour whatever was said.

pigeonpie

Nope Hugo, always do that in case something needs to go back; until I am sure it's ok. The terms and conditions whenever you buy on the internet always say it has to be in original packing etc. I took 5 photos of the intricate packing of my vacuum cleaner (which is fine). Apart from a faulty Dell, this is the first thing I have had to return. Believe me I know when the sudden, scary bill issue arose....

When I rang, there was no voice saying the call was recorded, but they do now you mention it Klondyke, seem to know who I spoke to. I will find out if they record calls. Good thinking as I have conversation notes, but that is all.
Consumer Direct say to fight my case by writing recorded delivery to Head Office as no company is allowed to sell laptops online and refuse to take them back within the 7 day statutory rights period as long as they are not damaged or have been excessively used etc. I only exceeded that as JL's employees told me they had increased it to 28 days.

Rather than lose £150 someone suggested I do a balance transfer as will end up paying less than that. Problem is that if the laptop turns out to be faulty,JLD will probably not believe me now. I will have to open it and properly retry it to see if it is working ok or not.

Btw I have vets bills to pay of over £1500+ (continuing) for those of you who enjoy having a crack at someone who is in a bit of bother. Thanks to the rest of you for kind advice at a difficult time.

gyzmo

Packaging has nothing to do with the return of goods. I have come across a couple of unscrupulous traders who have tried to reject accepting faulty goods on the grounds that packages have been opened. To summerise above posts - DUH! YEAH! do they think it will work all by itself without being opened?

I still believe the best hope here is relying on what was said to you by staff at the store.

Contact consumer Direct (or trading standards if C are not yet in your area) by phone and they will be able to offer specific advice.

pigeonpie

Consumer Direct said I am within my rights and expressed surprise that such a huge retailer is making such a fuss. They told me to hold on to it pending resolution. I did actually write saying I wanted to return it within 7 days and it's in the box. JL now say cos I loaded the user accounts and gave the PC a name (tell me any other way to get into a new pc?!) this is 'loading Windows software' and that they will take it back but deduct 15% as I did this, broke sellotape seals and that I must ensure that even the cardboard box is in good condition.

Retailers keep using the excuse that they 'can't resell as new' (even when we all suspect many do) to get round their statutory rights obligations.
Plus they refuse to accept that English law ( distance selling regs 2000) overrides their T&Cs.
It's full on intimidation, trying to force me to keep it.
I would strongly recommend that no-one buy so much as a doughnut from this outfit. They are less honourable than the lot that drive you nuts at Dellhell!!!!

Anyone have a name and address for the head of John Lewis Direct please?

Raksha

As I understand it, the OP had a specific need - low noise level, which was discussed with the store. After receiving the item, it didn't meet those needs, so is therefore 'not fit for the purpose' (as originally discussed with the store) and should be returned under those terms.

pigeonpie

Hmm, yes....just to give you an idea of how the co regards their statutory obligations, this is from their website:
"for your rights of cancellation under the Consumer Protection Distance Selling Regulations please see our Terms and Conditions".
Above the law then eh!
Consumer Direct say that the idea of the 7 days is to give the customer a reasonable time to inspect the item, which does rather imply that you open a box and turn it on.
I wish someone would do an article in one of the glossy PC mags about companies' ignoring statutory rights as they are inconvenient for them. Only bad publicity gets cos to behave in accordance with the law.

JLD say that they will deduct £105 from my refund as a gesture of goodwill, offer valid 14 days! They say that they will have to resell the item in store as used at a discount. Has anyone ever seen a discounted item like that for sale in any of their shops cos I haven't?

I'd still like to know who is chief honcho of JLD if anyone knows please. Think their address is Chelsea.

gyzmo

the 7 day rule is required and is a cooling off period. This allows cancellation for any reason whatsoever.

that does not go for the complaint you are making, and i can only refer to what I have already said,

contact consumer Direct again (giving your reference number). they should, if it cannot be resolved at that stage, refer the matter to a Trading Standards Officer (or OFT if appropriate) who wil investigate further.

pigeonpie

I did contact them again. They think the 7 day situation does apply to my case. But they didn't refer me, just said to write another letter to HQ and if necessary go to the small claims court. The company think their T&Cs take precedence over the law as I said.
I want to write to the CEO as the underlings just stick to the T&C script and are now issuing ultimatums.