John Lewis ripping me off: please help.

pigeonpie

I went to a JL store looking for a laptop. Asked the salesman if it turned out to be noisy, could I return it as am very noise sensitive and you just can't hear instore.
He advised me to order from their online store as that way I could return it if not satisfied for a refund.

Went to the website and read fully their terms and conditions which say that return of recordable media may be subject to 20% loss on refund if it can't be resold and is used. Checked out the laptop I wanted (it's available everywhere but thought I'd buy from a 'reputable co' as have had Dellhell before) and before ordering, rang up their customer sales line to make 100% sure of my rights.
They told me that within 28 days I could return a laptop for a refund for any reason, even if it was not faulty, as long as I had not damaged it. We also discussed the refund procedure and timing. I placed the order, based on what I had been told and was sent a simple email confirmation of my order. (they told me 'recordable media' meant iPods, MP3 etc)

PC finally arrived, I opened the box and took it out, took out the battery and power cable and plugged it in. As Windows requires it, I loaded the 2 user names (1 and 2) so that I could see the screen etc. I had the laptop on for 10 mins approximately, that's all. I then put it back in its plastic and in the original packing (which I even photographed to see that if I didn't like it, it would be in pristine condition going back for refund).

The accessories etc are still sealed in their original plastic wrapping. The user names are still loaded as I don't know how to remove them.

Then something personal happened which means I have to find a lot of cash right away to pay for it. So I emailed JL saying I wanted to return the laptop please as this was not a good time to be spending £700 . They did not reply to my email.

5 days later I rang them up and a woman said no problem, we'll fetch it later this week and refund you. I told her about the user names and she said that was no problem, they could easily remove them. They sent me an email saying they would refund me £699. Also had a line saying if it was considered unsaleable or used I "might" lose up to 20%. I thought all was fine as had fully cleared it with the woman on their returns line.

The next day an email arrives from her senior, saying she was not authorised to agree to a return as they do not take laptops back but they will honour it this time but I should be aware that they could deduct 20% from my £699.
I was obviously really upset so rang and another customer returns rep said that this was a theoretical possibility, but that obviously I did logically have to open something to see if it was ok and had only used it for a few mins, so in reality I was likely to get my money back. I told him, I haven't used it for long enough to even know if it may be faulty!

Today a person called Matt rang who was really awful and insisted that they would definitely be deducting 20%, that I had no right to a refund as it is not faulty and I should have read their terms and conditions. When I explained that I had and had phoned to verify and what I had been told, plus that JL's terms and conditions were not able to override English law relating to statutory rights on distance selling, he said that it is regrettable that I was misled, but irrelevant. I stand to lose about £150 if I return the laptop; otherwise they are blackmailing me into keeping it.

I have emailed them back today to their customer relations manager, but they are getting nastier by the day. I have always recommended them to other people, including on this site, but I have no hesitation now in saying do NOT buy a PC from John Lewis Direct. I was stupid enough to trust what I had been told by their people on the phone.

This is worse than Dell!! Does anyone know who I can take this up with and if I should hang on to the laptop until the dispute is resolved or let them have it back this week?

Sorry for the length of this post but please help me. Everything in my life is going belly up right now and this is all I needed.
Thank you everyone.

hollydays

Go back into the JL store,seek out same assistant.See if you can get him to admit his error?

gyzmo

Returns policies that are in addition to your statutory rights (e.g, change of mind or you don't like it) usually stipulate that the goods must be unopened, resaleable, unused or something similar.

The problem will come in proving what was said to you. They have terms and conditions in print which you agreed to. You had a conversation which now exists nowhere.

If you can prove what was said to you, then you will have a good chance, as these will form part of the terms and conditions (so long as what the sales assistant said was fact, and not merely an opinion).

A good option, as stated by hollydays, is to find the assistant, but and ask the question again (but don't say that you have already purchased the product). Once he does repeat what he states, get a manager over PDQ and state what has happened. If you feel upto it, be loud rational (but polite) so that others can hear you, as shops do not like a scene, especially when the customer is correct (as opposed to some scally trying to con the shop and making a fool of themselves).

Failing that, a complaint to the OFT may help, but it really will again come down to proof and the weighing of evidence writetn and spoken.

Alternatively, if you can show that the product is not as described, then you can insist on a full refund, and would be well within your rights to do so.

dazco

Where have you recommended them on this site? You have mentioned them but never recommended them.

ooro

pigeonpie

sorry to hear you are having trouble - i would go straight to trading standards - in the yellow pages probably or try a google serch. But they will give you very clear advice and may even take up your case. I wouln't put up with rudeness either - try speaking to the store manager in the store you visited and not someone too junior to sort you out.

Good luck

withabix

Read their terms and conditions properly.

You aren't trying to return it beacuse it is faulty or noisy. You are trying to return it because you now find that you can't afford it.

You don't have a right to return goods unless they are faulty.

You have NO rights under the DSR just because you have subsequently decided that you can't afford it after using it.

You will probably have to take the £150 loss, keep the laptop or sell it on eBay. If the JLP price was good, you might even make a profit. I have in the past.

If you disagree with me, think about what YOU would do if someone bought a brand new laptop from you, opened it, set it up and then decided they didn't want it.

Would YOU refund them 100% of the purchase price??? I think not.

Or, how would YOU feel if you ordered a brand new laptop for £700 from JLP and found that it had been used when it arrived? That's what you are asking JLP to do - ie sell a used laptop to somoene else for the full price as NEW.

So, tell me again, WHY should JLP not deduct 20% of the price???

I think they are being quite reasonable personally.

irishjohn

John Lewis use a 3rd party call centre for customer services. I had a problem with them 12 months ago when I ordered a television which I subsequently had problems with over delivery.

Instead of pressing the required telephone digit for customer service I pressed the key for any other queries and asked for their complaints service. I then explained the way I was brushed off by customer service and politely explained the circumstances. They arranged to cancel my order as requested and sent me £50 of vouchers to compensate for poor handling by Customer Service.

Try that route but politely explain what you were told when purchasing and ask for assistance.

davsidipp

withabix come into the real world.most shops resell returned stock biggest are argos and m& s.not 100% sure but you do not have to return in original packaging as stores make out.

withabix

davsidipp wrote:

withabix come into the real world.most shops resell returned stock biggest are argos and m& s.not 100% sure but you do not have to return in original packaging as stores make out.

Of course they do, but it depends WHAT it is and whether use is obvious.

pigeonpie

The issue is not that it is used; I have broken the seal on the plastic bag and the carton. As they take back faulty laptops, just how is any customer supposed to know that it's faulty without trying? 2 of their customer returns people said this was obvious. I haven't tried out this one - 10 mins doing start up;nothing loaded,no software checked, not a single letter typed. It looks brand new, most things are still unpacked and sealed and I know they will on-sell it as brand new.
I am going to cancel the pick up and go instore to talk to a manager. I am also going to try complaints, thanks for the suggestion.

A PC magazine told me that you do have a statutory right to return any laptop within 7 days for whatever reason if it has been bought online. They may ask you to pay for the pick up. Cos breaching this because they allegedly can't on-sell is not the consumer's problem. At least one co has now amended their terms and conds to take cognisance of the law.
My problem is I was too naive, even at my age, to insist on everything written in email as I trusted JL. Never again.

Fifer

withabix wrote:

Or, how would YOU feel if you ordered a brand new laptop for £700 from JLP and found that it had been used when it arrived? That's what you are asking JLP to do - ie sell a used laptop to somoene else for the full price as NEW.

No, he/she isn't. Nothing has been stated about what JL should do with customer returns. In any case, some companies sell such stock off at a discount as a cost of offering a flexible returns policy which attracts more trade.

withabix wrote:

So, tell me again, WHY should JLP not deduct 20% of the price???

Presumably because they said they would on more than one occasion before reneging.