Michelin vs bridgestone

skiddlydiddly

Strider590 wrote: »

The IAM teach techniques which are sometimes in contradiction to what we are taught for our test.

For example..... Using the whole road when safe to do so, in order to gain superior vision around the next left hand bend (very useful on country lanes).
They also emphasise "proper and appropriate use of speed" and the ability of the driver to judge how to drive on what road and in what conditions.

IAM is also about defensive driving, it's about driving in such a way that gives you the maximum time to take evasive action to avoid an accident, should the situation arise.

I was surprised too, we were taught to take a racing line around corners as it gives the best grip(it helps straighten out the bend) and the best view of what's coming.I do this anyway, so it was natural for me but not for all on the course.
We were also made to overtake in varying styles eg moving left and right behind the vehicle we wanted to pass to get a good view of what was coming.Some might class that as aggressive driving but then I class 35mph on a NSL as dawdling.

bigjl

andygb wrote: »

As an "advanced driver" do you think this sort of behaviour is a good advert for the Institute of Advanced Motorists?

Nice to seen the opinionated keyboard warriers out in force.

Bear in mind that it does help with getting to Emergency Calls quicker, also my advanced driving qualification is done by the insructors employed by my NHS Trust, I don't have much time for the IaM or Rospa, they are the kind of advanced drivers that speak with a bit too much "adenoids". And tend to focus on different things to my training.

My qualification takes some aspects from Police Roadcraft and other things more specific to my job, and falls slightly short of the Police Response/Pursuit qualification.

We are taught to take "command" of the road in a way, especially when driving in Urban environments, as when on the wrong side of the road the most dangerous thing is sometimes oncoming drivers trying to find a gap between us and the kerb/parked cars.

Until you have spent the best part of a decade on blues then you will never believe the kinds of stupid things that people get up to behind the wheel.

andygb

bigjl wrote: »

Nice to seen the opinionated keyboard warriers out in force.

Bear in mind that it does help with getting to Emergency Calls quicker, also my advanced driving qualification is done by the insructors employed by my NHS Trust, I don't have much time for the IaM or Rospa, - you seem to have a very high opinion of yourself, considering that these are two very respected organisations.
they are the kind of advanced drivers that speak with a bit too much "adenoids". And tend to focus on different things to my training.

My qualification takes some aspects from Police Roadcraft and other things more specific to my job, and falls slightly short of the Police Response/Pursuit qualification.

We are taught to take "command" of the road in a way, especially when driving in Urban environments, as when on the wrong side of the road the most dangerous thing is sometimes oncoming drivers trying to find a gap between us and the kerb/parked cars. - Yes, they are probably more than a trifle scared (????) to see someone on their side of the road travelling towards them at high speed.

Until you have spent the best part of a decade on blues then you will never believe the kinds of stupid things that people get up to behind the wheel.

Now obviously the only driving qualifications I have, are passing both motorcycle and car tests. You did however talk about driving your Mondeo, which I assume is not your work car, and you did say that the handling on the rear was bad with Pirellis.
As a Mondeo owner myself (Pirelli 6000s all around for the past six years and 90,000 miles), I just wonder how you drive in order to provoke the tyres to let go in wet conditions. Could it be down to driving too quickly? Maybe lack of anticipation? Failing to recognise the road conditions and drive accordingly?
I can therefore only imagine that my thirty years driving, with no accidents caused by myself, and only one loss of control (slow spin on icy roads exiting a roundabout in a BMW 2002 shod with second hand tyres about one year after passing my test) must be down to pure luck (considering my tyre choice), and has nothing to do with my driving ability at all.;)

Strider590

andygb wrote: »

I can therefore only imagine that my thirty years driving, with no accidents caused by myself, and only one loss of control (slow spin on icy roads exiting a roundabout in a BMW 2002 shod with second hand tyres about one year after passing my test) must be down to pure luck (considering my tyre choice), and has nothing to do with my driving ability at all.;)

Not to p1ss on your bonfire or owt, but 30 years no accidents doesn't say !!!!!! for anyone's driving ability.

It's unfortunately that nonsense which arrogant, self righteous road warriors (vigilantes) spout when they head out looking for trouble, and start to take the law (their assumed 40 year old, chinese whispered version of the law) into their own hands.

Example1 - The Vigilante who needs to read section 130 of the highway code.

Example2 - Never had an accident, but I wonder how many this guy has actually caused!

mickbhall

Also use toyo proxes all round very good grip on Tight twisty b roads, Was going to go for some Pirellis but think il stick to toyo now.
Have a look on camskills or black circles both good for tyres.

andygb

Strider590 wrote: »

Not to p1ss on your bonfire or owt, but 30 years no accidents doesn't say !!!!!! for anyone's driving ability.

It's unfortunately that nonsense which arrogant, self righteous road warriors (vigilantes) spout when they head out looking for trouble, and start to take the law (their assumed 40 year old, chinese whispered version of the law) into their own hands.

Example1 - The Vigilante who needs to read section 130 of the highway code.

Example2 - Never had an accident, but I wonder how many this guy has actually caused!

So ,so you always drive around with a camcorder going, and if you do, then why? I can only assume that you are an arrogant self righteous road warrior. You obviously have a very high opinion of your own driving, how old are you - 14?
I tend to think that 30 years accident free driving is a pretty good indication of my driving skills, but that is a bit off topic.
This started out as a debate about two brands of tyre, and then the "expert" drivers turn up, and decide to berate another tyre, simply because their handling skills are not up to the mark.

bigjl

andygb wrote: »

Now obviously the only driving qualifications I have, are passing both motorcycle and car tests. You did however talk about driving your Mondeo, which I assume is not your work car, and you did say that the handling on the rear was bad with Pirellis.
As a Mondeo owner myself (Pirelli 6000s all around for the past six years and 90,000 miles), I just wonder how you drive in order to provoke the tyres to let go in wet conditions. Could it be down to driving too quickly? Maybe lack of anticipation? Failing to recognise the road conditions and drive accordingly?
I can therefore only imagine that my thirty years driving, with no accidents caused by myself, and only one loss of control (slow spin on icy roads exiting a roundabout in a BMW 2002 shod with second hand tyres about one year after passing my test) must be down to pure luck (considering my tyre choice), and has nothing to do with my driving ability at all.;)

Whats this, a !!!!ing contest, how about almost ten years driving on blues around London without any accidents, the last accident I had was when I was 19. Caused by hitting a pothole filled with water on the inside of a bend and the car losing grip momentarily at the rear, I did get the car back under control but ran out of road and that was that, my fault, but then again most wouldn't have been able to recover the slide, I did, but youthful exuberance was the main cause. This was over 20 years ago.

Would it surprise you that some people are just better drivers than you, would it also surprise you that the ability to "feel" what a car is doing and to be able to "feel" how much grip you have isn't anything to do with losing control but is rather more to do with being in better control.

IaM and Rospa are respected by drivers that know no better, but when the Emergency Services don't train their drivers this way, at least not in the last 10 years in London anyway, why would you think this is, is it because these road captains are better than the emergency services or that they drive around to emergency calls all day and have to be trained to a higher standard, ever been on a three week driving course where the pass mark for practical skills is 100% or where the pass mark for written exams is 95%, I doubt it.

Though as has been said, having no accidents is not proof of a good driver, one that drives so slowly as to be a danger to others maybe, but no proof of driving ability.

I know what your problem is andy, you don't like your opinion being shown to be wrong by those who are just plain better than you at something, some people never know how good or bad a tyre is due to not having the driving skills or the feel for what the car is doing underneath them, when a person with this ability puts forward an opinion then no matter what you may think their opinion carries more weight than somebody that thinks having no accidents is the only think to use as a benchmark.

I take it you are a better driver than Lewis Hamilton, the late Colin Macrae, Stirling Moss or maybe even "The Stig".

Being slow means you will always win the race, just always at the back, whilst being a danger to everybody else on the track.

Just to add extra information I never had an accident whilst doing 2000 miles a week as a Security Inspector for a London based security co, or when working as a courier, doing 1500 miles a week, or a minicab driver doing 1200 miles a week, or 800 miles a week when working as a chauffeur.

The fact that you only lost the backend of a 2002 once says it all when it comes to how slow you drive, I had an Austin A40 when I was at Uni, and used to drive 140 miles home every other weekend, along twisty scottish roads and I must say that the back end was never in line with the front the whole way home, drifty madness, at relatively modest speeds, all the way. Never spun it or crashed it, always in perfect control, radial tyres with a crossply tread pattern so learned the ability to feel how much grip I had from early on in my driving career.

I suppose there is no surprise that drivers that grow up in urban enviroments have little experience of such thngs, after all it doesn't take much skill to drive down a straight road and then drive around a roundabout.

I have also passed my car and bike tests, both first time, in fact I passed my bike test without a single lesson, this was obviously before CBT.

My driving skill and experience leads me to the opinion that the Pirelli P6000 is a rubbish tyre, as my position as an experienced and highly skilled response driver means that I can advise somebody using my experience, that is what I have done. Are you infering that it is my skills that aren't up to scratch or the handling abilities of the tyre in question?


Are you one of these folk that blocks the emergency services, we call them road captains, you can see them sometimes on these roadwars types programs, when they pull into the fast lane to block the second of two speeding cars, not realising that the second is an unmarked police car. Though normally they just fail to yield, you are aware that impeding an Ambulance or Police vehicle when carrying out their duties isn't legal.

As in their world if a Police or Ambulance vehicle doesn't have their lights on then they can't claim exemptions to the RTA, which is a common misconception, the exemption is claimed and the blues and twos are only used as visible/audible warnings that an exemption may be getting claimed. But you already knew that didn't you, after all you have 30 years of driving slowly to back this up.

skiddlydiddly

I'm not going to quote all of Bigjl's post as its too long but I pretty much agree with all of that.I see a lot of posts on here from people who do 50k miles a year so they are a good driver.To me, thats only really achievable by living on the motorway which apart from trying to ward off boredom and tiredness is probably the least demanding driving you can do.Its also the safest type of road to travel on so you are less likely to have an accident.I've heard pletny of times from drivers"I've been driving x amount of years and not had an accident" and I often think its more forom luck than judgement.

It takes far more skill to do real word driving requiring lots of maneuvers such as on regular roads and there is far more to react to eg pedestrians, cyclists, traffic lights.
It takes even more skill still to do all this in an emergency situation as the poster above describes.I imagine a day in the driving life they do would be more demanding than your average drivers' year and that not having or causing an accident driving like this speaks volumes.

andygb

skiddlydiddly wrote: »

I'm not going to quote all of Bigjl's post as its too long but I pretty much agree with all of that.I see a lot of posts on here from people who do 50k miles a year so they are a good driver.To me, thats only really achievable by living on the motorway which apart from trying to ward off boredom and tiredness is probably the least demanding driving you can do.Its also the safest type of road to travel on so you are less likely to have an accident.I've heard pletny of times from drivers"I've been driving x amount of years and not had an accident" and I often think its more forom luck than judgement.

It takes far more skill to do real word driving requiring lots of maneuvers such as on regular roads and there is far more to react to eg pedestrians, cyclists, traffic lights.
It takes even more skill still to do all this in an emergency situation as the poster above describes.I imagine a day in the driving life they do would be more demanding than your average drivers' year and that not having or causing an accident driving like this speaks volumes.

This whole thing "kicked" off because Bigjl and others were showing off about THEIR driving skills, not me. It was in response to one post which I made, where I simply stated that I had used Pirelli P6000 tyres, and had found them to be good value, safe and durable.
Bigjl in particular wants to showcase his "professional" driving skills, whilst admitting that he could not control a Pirelli shod Mondeo in the wet. Other people have jumped on the bandwagon, to state that "everyone knows" that Pirelli tyres are lethal in the wet. I simply pointed out how long I had been driving for, and that apart from one spin a year after passing my test, I have been accident free. I do not do 50K miles a year (probably about 18K at the moment), and only around half of the miles are done on motorways.

andygb

bigjl wrote: »

Whats this, a !!!!ing contest, how about almost ten years driving on blues around London without any accidents, the last accident I had was when I was 19. Caused by hitting a pothole filled with water on the inside of a bend and the car losing grip momentarily at the rear, I did get the car back under control but ran out of road and that was that, my fault, but then again most wouldn't have been able to recover the slide, I did, but youthful exuberance was the main cause. This was over 20 years ago.

Would it surprise you that some people are just better drivers than you, would it also surprise you that the ability to "feel" what a car is doing and to be able to "feel" how much grip you have isn't anything to do with losing control but is rather more to do with being in better control.

IaM and Rospa are respected by drivers that know no better, but when the Emergency Services don't train their drivers this way, at least not in the last 10 years in London anyway, why would you think this is, is it because these road captains are better than the emergency services or that they drive around to emergency calls all day and have to be trained to a higher standard, ever been on a three week driving course where the pass mark for practical skills is 100% or where the pass mark for written exams is 95%, I doubt it.

Though as has been said, having no accidents is not proof of a good driver, one that drives so slowly as to be a danger to others maybe, but no proof of driving ability.

I know what your problem is andy, you don't like your opinion being shown to be wrong by those who are just plain better than you at something, some people never know how good or bad a tyre is due to not having the driving skills or the feel for what the car is doing underneath them, when a person with this ability puts forward an opinion then no matter what you may think their opinion carries more weight than somebody that thinks having no accidents is the only think to use as a benchmark.

I take it you are a better driver than Lewis Hamilton, the late Colin Macrae, Stirling Moss or maybe even "The Stig".

Being slow means you will always win the race, just always at the back, whilst being a danger to everybody else on the track.

Just to add extra information I never had an accident whilst doing 2000 miles a week as a Security Inspector for a London based security co, or when working as a courier, doing 1500 miles a week, or a minicab driver doing 1200 miles a week, or 800 miles a week when working as a chauffeur.

The fact that you only lost the backend of a 2002 once says it all when it comes to how slow you drive, I had an Austin A40 when I was at Uni, and used to drive 140 miles home every other weekend, along twisty scottish roads and I must say that the back end was never in line with the front the whole way home, drifty madness, at relatively modest speeds, all the way. Never spun it or crashed it, always in perfect control, radial tyres with a crossply tread pattern so learned the ability to feel how much grip I had from early on in my driving career.

I suppose there is no surprise that drivers that grow up in urban enviroments have little experience of such thngs, after all it doesn't take much skill to drive down a straight road and then drive around a roundabout.

I have also passed my car and bike tests, both first time, in fact I passed my bike test without a single lesson, this was obviously before CBT.

My driving skill and experience leads me to the opinion that the Pirelli P6000 is a rubbish tyre, as my position as an experienced and highly skilled response driver means that I can advise somebody using my experience, that is what I have done. Are you infering that it is my skills that aren't up to scratch or the handling abilities of the tyre in question?


Are you one of these folk that blocks the emergency services, we call them road captains, you can see them sometimes on these roadwars types programs, when they pull into the fast lane to block the second of two speeding cars, not realising that the second is an unmarked police car. Though normally they just fail to yield, you are aware that impeding an Ambulance or Police vehicle when carrying out their duties isn't legal.

As in their world if a Police or Ambulance vehicle doesn't have their lights on then they can't claim exemptions to the RTA, which is a common misconception, the exemption is claimed and the blues and twos are only used as visible/audible warnings that an exemption may be getting claimed. But you already knew that didn't you, after all you have 30 years of driving slowly to back this up.

Bigjl, you have been the only one "bigging" yourself up on this thread, showing off about your experience, and what you can do in a car on public roads. You are the self appointed expert on driving style and tyre choice (I simply suggested P6000s because I have always found them to be good value, durable, and more importantly - SAFE).
I have never made myself out to be better than other drivers, but you have certainly given the impression that you think you are superior.
I am not a better driver than Lewis Hamilton, Colin Macrae, or the Stig, and if I copied this and showed it to Stirling, he would just laugh.
How do you know that I drive slowly?
If you are that concerned about Pirelli P6000 tyres, then why don't you contact Watchdog or ROSPA (Oh sorry, I forgot, you don't like them;)).