Train Fare-No ticket fine - please help!

taffy056

poorgirl-54 wrote: »

Heres the update..............
So i sent IRCAS a letter explaining i paid for the ticket £14.50 and the ticket machine didn’t produce the tickets for the journey which i had purchased. I collected the single journey ticket from London Kings Cross, and for travelling from Leeds to London, on the return leg of my journey. With the letter i attached copies of the 2 tickets the machine did produce; the reservation ticket and a coupon ticket which the machine produced. I also attached copies of the email booking confirmation from EastCoast Trains, with details of credit transaction had taken place, and copies of booking from my East Coast account online.
IRCAS, sent me a letter that their investigating the case and will get back to me shortly and not make any further appeals.
And today IAS replied stating:
1.If you ‘claim’ London Kings Cross ticket machine didn’t print all your tickets relevant to your booking, it was your responsibility to check you had all the tickets before boarding.
2.As a regular traveller you are aware this type of ticket is valid 2 part only.
3.We must maintain consistency in assessments and its unfair on other passengers with similar circumstances to accept your appeal, whilst declining theirs.
4.You must pay £166.50 before 14th October.
I really don’t know what do.
Please can anyone help me, im desperate, this is really stressing me out.

That's the problem with this so called independent appeals process, its owned by a train company!

I don't think that if this went to court they wouldn't stand a chance, would they get a conviction with all the evidence you have to prove that you did pay for the ticket? Its your choice of course but if it was me I would go to court in relation to this.

Best of luck

poorgirl-54

Im scared, of going to court - do you think i could stand a chance?

taffy056

poorgirl-54 wrote: »

Im scared, of going to court - do you think i could stand a chance?

Really its a gamble to go to court, its how the magistrate sees things, so you must make a cogent and intelligent defence of this, I am sure there are people here who can help with your defence in this matter, for my mind its worth the risk, but you must decide whether its worth risking it, I would in your position,

poorgirl-54

i see your point to go to court if it was someone else in my shoes, i too would say go to court

but i dont think i have it in me, to defend myself in reality in a court of law, i think i wud be so nervous and will be unable to say a word or just burst into tears.

Hadeon

Why 'magistrates' taffy, surely this is a civil claim to be brought before the small claims court should IRCAS decide to pursue, which in my opinion I doubt very much they would do.

Poorgirl - I understand how you must be feeling but there's nothing to be scared of.
I would call IRCAS's bluff, inform them that as you had already paid for your journey you will not be paying again. Then wait & see what, if anything, develops. You risk very little by adopting this strategy, but it has to be your call.

taffy056

poorgirl-54 wrote: »

i see your point to go to court if it was someone else in my shoes, i too would say go to court

but i dont think i have it in me, to defend myself in reality in a court of law, i think i wud be so nervous and will be unable to say a word or just burst into tears.

You can always ask someone else to come with you, honestly its only 3 or 4 people there maximum, and you can give your defence in writing so you don't miss anything, you really need somebody to post here who knows the ins and outs of appealing this.

taffy056

Hadeon wrote: »

Why 'magistrates' taffy, surely this is a civil claim to be brought before the small claims court should IRCAS decide to pursue, which in my opinion I doubt very much they would do.

Just thought that is how they handle this , sorry if I am confusing the issue, still its up to the OP to defend this if needed

Livingthedream

Hi poorgirl-54, glad you have updated us. As this is a civil debt, I agree with hadeon this will chased up in a small claims court. However, like with somersetboy, in the thread I gave you earlier they are trying to bully you into paying. My advise is this;

1. If you don't fancy the idea of court then pay up.
or
2. Call their bluff and write a letter back to IRCAS acknowledging their last letter but you disagree with their judgement as 'you have already paid for this journey with an advance ticket and have evidence to back this up' and your wish to fight this in a small claims court, this is important as it will involve their solicitors and not 'some nobody' in an office. Also for good measure write a letter back to East Coast stating your intentions.

At the moment East coast are having a lot of bad press with the 'Professor and Advance tickets' and IMHO I feel that East Coast won't want the terms and conditions tested in a Court of Law.

Right as I stated this my opinion, but if they do summons you to a small claims court, you always get the option to pay before it gets to court*.

*can somebody else confirm that please.

dzug1

Livingthedream wrote: »

.
Right as I stated this my opinion, but if they do summons you to a small claims court, you always get the option to pay before it gets to court*.

*can somebody else confirm that please.

Yes you can pay into court - plus the court fee - and it never gets to court

Or you can pay a smaller sum into court. It then goes to court but the court has the option (if it thinks it reasonable) of saying that that settles the case. Only really applies if there is doubt over the sum due - here there's no doubt about the amount but considerable doubt over whether it's due at all.

Livingthedream

taffy056 wrote: »

would they get a conviction with all the evidence you have to prove that you did pay for the ticket?

Hi, taffy, please forgive me for correcting your wording, but she can't get convicted for this and won't get a criminal record, unless she goes against the courts judgement.

This is for the following reasons, as the OP has paid for tickets, was on the right train and had half the required documentation she can't be prosecuted for 'fare evasion'.

I know they could prosecute under 'Fail to show a valid ticket' contrary to National Railway Byelaw 18.1 (2005) but this is normally kept for serial fare dodgers and I don't think a magistrate would be impressed if this case came before him, with the amount of defence evidence.