'What religion are you?' poll discussion

cyberbob

Red_Doe wrote: »

Harley Quin, I admire your arguments a great deal, but even quoting common sense at a religious fanatic is a waste of time I`m afraid. They`re too frightened to look at any other truth but their own.

That statement can quite easily be applied to athiests. People who are so closed minded that they do not wish to believe there could be something outside their own little bubble. Personally I see people like Richard Dawkins who I respect as a scientist more close minded than most Religious people. The evangelical way in which he approaches his anti religious stance makes him far more close minded,

Yes you can sit there and pick holes in the bible and yes some religions take it as written but most take as what it is a guide full of Metaphor's, Parable and allegory.

Red_Doe

If that was aimed at me, I`m not an atheist, sorry.

bulletproof_1979

cyberbob wrote: »

That statement can quite easily be applied to athiests. People who are so closed minded that they do not wish to believe there could be something outside their own little bubble. Personally I see people like Richard Dawkins who I respect as a scientist more close minded than most Religious people. The evangelical way in which he approaches his anti religious stance makes him far more close minded,

You're misrepresenting Dawkins just a bit here, I'm afraid Bob!

He has quite often stated that there could be a god, his view is simply that this possibility is highly highly unlikely and is not supported by any evidence whatsoever. It's therefore very silly to behave as if he does exist, and even sillier to think you can even know which specific God out of the thousands speculated on by mankind he is...

Salaam

Harley, "SOOOOOOO, if you can see that the bible is shot full of errors, why can't you not see the same is true of the Koran?"
Firstly, no where did I say the Bible had errors in my post. Adrian claims in one his posts that Jesus is God, and I have provided verses that contradict his claim.
Secondly, have you come across any errors in the Quran, or are you assuming?

ashleypride

cyberbob wrote: »

That statement can quite easily be applied to athiests. People who are so closed minded that they do not wish to believe there could be something outside their own little bubble. Personally I see people like Richard Dawkins who I respect as a scientist more close minded than most Religious people. The evangelical way in which he approaches his anti religious stance makes him far more close minded,

Yes you can sit there and pick holes in the bible and yes some religions take it as written but most take as what it is a guide full of Metaphor's, Parable and allegory.

I can understand why you think this - he gets a little militant about stuff like indoctrination of children, or when people spout crap about "science".
However, he is far, far, far from close minded and his knowledge of Religion (and especially the bible) is quite something. If you ever get the chance to meet him and have a chat you'll understand, but yes, sometimes I do think he needs to chill a bit in public.

Mr.Harley_Quin

cyberbob wrote: »

That statement can quite easily be applied to athiests. People who are so closed minded that they do not wish to believe there could be something outside their own little bubble.

Bob, you are incorrect. Atheists and Skeptics are not closed minded. We simply require facts and then think them over. Every atheist on earth would believe in god if god were to appear. That is not closed minded.

Theists on the other hand refuse to consider that they may be wrong. They think they are right when there is not a scrap of evidence to support them.

Try this: Think of something you do not believe in, say bigfoot or aliens, and then ask yourself if you are closed minded to not believe in them.

Mr.Harley_Quin

Salaam wrote: »

Adrian claims in one his posts that Jesus is God, and I have provided verses that contradict his claim.
Secondly, have you come across any errors in the Quran, or are you assuming?

If something can be contradicted or corrected it means an error has been made somewhere.

I am not assuming by pointing out that the Koran is full of holes, it is. There is a great deal of scholarly work that points out the errors in holy books. I recall you pointed something out before.

Mr.Harley_Quin

Red_Doe wrote: »

Harley Quin, I admire your arguments a great deal, but even quoting common sense at a religious fanatic is a waste of time I`m afraid. They`re too frightened to look at any other

I beg to differ. The recent 10/20 campaign against homeopathy has shown that people can be made to understand that nonsense, no matter how well defended is still nonsense.

Douglas Adams said it better. "I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic."

adrian_clark

Mr.Harley_Quin wrote: »

I beg to differ. The recent 10/20 campaign against homeopathy has shown that people can be made to understand that nonsense, no matter how well defended is still nonsense.

Douglas Adams said it better. "I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic."

I really do appreciate that my position is risible to most people who contribute to this discussion. For most people, from Salaam to Quin, it is quite contrary to what science, academia, art, the media and politics offers as a set of fundamental beliefs.

We are in the 'Age of Reason' that explains the intelligent evolved from the intelligent, that something somehow was created from nothing. I used to be like most people, it was comforting. it enabled all kinds of bad behaviour based on the fact that I was the apex of evolution. By blending philosophy with relative moral world values there was a logical stream of thought to behave as I chose. This I knew as freedom of thought or liberty. So !!!!!! was legitimate artistic expression, abortion was fine as we are highly evolved and women could choose over life or death and if other cultures wanted to behave in way that resulted in oppression and cruelty, for certain sections of their population, that could be seen as the process of natural selection and not my business.

Being a rational and enlightened person with a western education, I could see, along with other secular atheistic people, what primitive religious people inhabiting much of the rest of the world could not. However, clues kept appearing that indicated that there may be more to life than what we could see. There were all kinds of contradictions in the theories and ideas the world offered. It was interesting that there were people, some prominent sports stars, businessmen, politicians some ordinary neighbours, who did not accept what the world taught and called themselves Christians. Then there were world religions with strange customs, and expressions of faith from colourful ceremonies to suicide and murder.

This led to the hypothesis that supposing those words we use at wedding ceremonies and Christenings are true. Supposing words really do matter and we will be held account for what we say and do! Suppose that Jesus Christ is who he said he was. This of course would change everything. Walking on water for the person who created the structures of matter, would then seem plausible. It all seemed worthy of inquiry and consideration just in case it was true, after all in world of competing truth claims one of them has to be the truth.

I hope if nothing else we can agree that the world is full of nonsense and lies. There are wicked people who are selfish, greedy, hard hearted, murderess and in it for what they can get. If there were a battle between good and evil then you have to admit that it would make a deal of sense to encourage belief in lies and nonsense, to put human rational on a pedestal above any notion of God and let us all go to our destruction calling each other lunatics, freaks and fanatics.

That's why God came into human history to rescue us from our religions and self destructive attitudes. Isn't it intriguing that human history revolves around a homeless itinerant preacher who was betrayed for 30 pieces of silver and murdered? How odd that rational people, faithful Jews who knew the price of herecy, with nothing to gain but ridicule and persecution, went on to proclaim Jesus was God and had conquered sin, death and hell by raising from the dead. Even stranger that people today such as our own Queen, military leaders like General Richard Dannett and sportsmen like rugby player Jason Robinson in 2010 still know this Jesus and believe he did what he said he came to do.

The point is that there is no rational middle ground. You either dismiss Jesus Christ as a fraud, and by clear inference a cruel charlatan or the only Son of God, the third member of the trinitarian Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as it says in John 1,1 - "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God". You have a father in heaven who loves you beyond all measure, who wants nothing but good for you, who sent his son to pay the price for your sin and who gifted you free will to put aside your proud and rebellious religious heart to come to Him as the Truth. Just imagine, this just might be true and if it is, what amazingly good news!

Eric_Pisch

adrian_clark wrote: »

That's why God came into human history to rescue us from our religions and self destructive attitudes. Isn't it intriguing that human history revolves around a homeless itinerant preacher who was betrayed for 30 pieces of silver and murdered? How odd that rational people, faithful Jews who knew the price of herecy, with nothing to gain but ridicule and persecution, went on to proclaim Jesus was God and had conquered sin, death and hell by raising from the dead. Even stranger that people today such as our own Queen, military leaders like General Richard Dannett and sportsmen like rugby player Jason Robinson in 2010 still know this Jesus and believe he did what he said he came to do.

The point is that there is no rational middle ground. You either dismiss Jesus Christ as a fraud, and by clear inference a cruel charlatan or the only Son of God, the third member of the trinitarian Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as it says in John 1,1 - "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God". You have a father in heaven who loves you beyond all measure, who wants nothing but good for you, who sent his son to pay the price for your sin and who gifted you free will to put aside your proud and rebellious religious heart to come to Him as the Truth. Just imagine, this just might be true and if it is, what amazingly good news!

love it

just two problems with your argument, it instantly rubbishes all other religions

its based on a children's book written by people who where one step up the evolutionary ladder from cave dwelling ars3 scratchers

nice try