'What religion are you?' poll discussion

bulletproof_1979

adrian_clark wrote: »

That's the best answer I have. If you want to know more I can reassure you that Mars Hill Church in Seattle offers mainstream Christian teaching, it holds nothing to fear despite anything odd Google may say. There are some great video testimonies and all kinds of useful, free stuff to help understand what all us crazy Jesus freaks are getting so excited about every day.

If the Mars Hill Church is teaching its "crazy Jesus Freaks" that there is no evolution, then it's views are very very far from "mainstream". The vast majority of the educated world has moved on from the idea that the world was created in 7 days, and that includes the religious.

Even the majority of christians accept arguing with the evidence for evolution is as ridiculous as arguing against the theory of gravity.

Open your eyes - the evidence is all around you, and is far more beautiful than a 2000 year old fairy story could ever hope to be.

Harry_Flashman

adrian_clark wrote: »

Consider that like a good Muslim he takes up a weapon to defend his village because he hears foreigners are coming to kill his family and in the ensuing battle is killed.

Foreigners = Christians invading in the name of Christ?

What utter hypocrisy :mad:

Mr.Harley_Quin

adrian_clark wrote: »

Exactly, that's what Jesus came to do,

Err! Adrian, I hope you didn't think that my comments about Islam were in someway a nod and a wink to your own myths.

When you talk of Jesus, I can only imagine you have never though it through.

Try it like this. Jesus is god and sent himself to earth to be killed to appease himself because his creations offended him after breaking laws that he made so as not to be offended by.....Please stop me when this starts to sound absurd!

As you appear to have seen the entire elephant, so to speak, may I ask you a couple of questions?

Bear in mind this is 2010 and we come from a modern society, do you understand evolution? Have you read tyhe bible as a book and not cherry picked the 'nice' bits?

Salaam

AdrianClark: "Imagine if we could all take up our cross and follow the God who came into human history to show us Love, love to the point of laying down His life to take our punishment."

Deuteronomy 24:16 specifically says this: The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father. EVERY man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Even the Quran says:
“And no bearer of burdens shall bear another’s burden”. (Quran 35:18)

This seems somewhat contradictory to your claim.

Before you claim this is in the Torah and only applies to the Jews, it equally applies to the people of the Gospel because Matthew 5:17-20 reads: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to FULFILL them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Your reference to 'show us love', seems somewhat misplaced in comparison to the following verse: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34.

Jesus (peace be upon him) came to give the same message that all the other messengers and prophets gave: Worship ONE Lord, associate no partner:
Quran ch 112:1-4 reads:
He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is NONE like unto Him.
Chapter 112 proclaims the Oneness and Absolute nature of Divine Essence. This concept is presented in the first verse. The second verse declares that Allah is Eternal, i.e., He is beyond the bounds of time and space. The third verse describes that Allah does not give birth nor is He is given birth and the final verse declares that Allah is beyond comparison.

adrian_clark

Salaam wrote: »

AdrianClark: "Imagine if we could all take up our cross and follow the God who came into human history to show us Love, love to the point of laying down His life to take our punishment."

Deuteronomy 24:16 specifically says this: The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father. EVERY man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Even the Quran says:
“And no bearer of burdens shall bear another’s burden”. (Quran 35:18)

This seems somewhat contradictory to your claim.

Before you claim this is in the Torah and only applies to the Jews, it equally applies to the people of the Gospel because Matthew 5:17-20 reads: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to FULFILL them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Your reference to 'show us love', seems somewhat misplaced in comparison to the following verse: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34.

Jesus (peace be upon him) came to give the same message that all the other messengers and prophets gave: Worship ONE Lord, associate no partner:
Quran ch 112:1-4 reads:
He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is NONE like unto Him.
Chapter 112 proclaims the Oneness and Absolute nature of Divine Essence. This concept is presented in the first verse. The second verse declares that Allah is Eternal, i.e., He is beyond the bounds of time and space. The third verse describes that Allah does not give birth nor is He is given birth and the final verse declares that Allah is beyond comparison.

Hi everyone. I very much want to friendly. All my posts have simply endeavoured to do is emphasise that Jesus Christ claimed to be God and for that the religious crowd persecuted him and arranged for the Roman authorities to execute Him in one of the most brutal forms of torture available. There is only one God and the whole Bible, from the beginning to the end is about Him. Jesus was there before the Angels fell, He created the earth, "in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

There are few Christians who believe the world was created in seven days, I don't because it looks pretty old to me. Genesis 1 and 2 was written by Moses, inspired by God, millennia after the event and he wrote using metaphor to help us envisage a mysterious event. The point is that the place to start is in the work and person of Jesus Christ. He is either who He claimed to be, the incarnate God, come to earth to rescue His people from Sin or a fraud who doesn't deserve peace but condemnation for fooling many billions of people that He had the power to forgive sin and that He would return again, with a sword to bring final justice, cleanse the world of sin and create a new Kingdom.

By all means dismiss His claims as fairy tales but you have to accept that it is intriguing how the early Christians, who had been faithful Jews and had nothing to gain, accepted Jesus as the Christ and since then up to this present day billions of people are faithfully worshipping Him as the resurrected Lord, loving their neighbours, going out to all nations baptizing in His name and loving and serving those in need. Even today Muslims are converting to Christianity and risking their lives leaving a religion that commonly condemns people to death for apostasy.

We all worship something, success, sex, material wealth, family, a religion. You can tell what you worship by where you invest your time, money, emotions and resources. There are many counterfeit gods who lay claim to your soul, however, we simply have to reject or accept who Jesus said He was as faithfully recorded in the Bible, by reject or accepting His offer to forgive your sins and His invitation to eternal life in His presence which starting today. Give your life new purpose, meaning and understanding today by accepting Him as your personal Lord and saviour, it's an awesome deal!

Fifer

adrian_clark wrote: »

We all worship something

I don't.........

Salaam

Adrian Clark, your comment: "Even today Muslims are converting to Christianity and risking their lives leaving a religion that commonly condemns people to death for apostasy." I think you're confusing with your own teachings:
Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

Also let us look at Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

If Jesus is God, then why did he have a conversation with God when he was 'hanging' on the cross? Isn't God the All-Knowing? If Jesus was God and God is All-Knowing, Jesus would never have had to ask God, "Father, why have you forsaken me?" God would not have needed the question, and Jesus would not have needed the answer. God, even as a man, would not be limited in their knowledge of each other."

adrian_clark

Salaam wrote: »

Adrian Clark, your comment: "Even today Muslims are converting to Christianity and risking their lives leaving a religion that commonly condemns people to death for apostasy." I think you're confusing with your own teachings:
Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

Also let us look at Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

If Jesus is God, then why did he have a conversation with God when he was 'hanging' on the cross? Isn't God the All-Knowing? If Jesus was God and God is All-Knowing, Jesus would never have had to ask God, "Father, why have you forsaken me?" God would not have needed the question, and Jesus would not have needed the answer. God, even as a man, would not be limited in their knowledge of each other."

An important question, thank you. To understand the answer we need to go back to the beginning. God created the world without sin and he called it good, after He had created man and woman in His image and likeness He saw that it was very good. Man and woman walked with God in the cool of the day. However, Adam in his arrogance and vanity sinned. He stood by as a passive coward while his wife, Eve, succumbed to temptation. A good and perfect God cannot tolerate sin, for the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23) so man was banished from the garden and a cherubim placed at the entrance with a flaming sword guard to tree of life. As a result we now live in a world corrupted and decaying and have all inherited our father Adam's sin nature, 'for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God' (Romans 3,23).

That is why God promised a saviour, because there is nothing we can do to save ourselves. This was illustrated by the grumbling, troublesome tribe of Israel, God's chosen people (the early Christians) who failed time and again to obey God. So God sent his only son, Jesus, who said, 'Do not think I have come to abolish the law of the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them' Matt (5,16).

That's the good news. We no longer have to punish people on behalf of God for worshiping idols like; success, power, sex, !!!!!!, self or any other false gods, if that were the case before I came into a Christian I would have had to have been killed. Jesus faced that judgement and took that punishment for you and me at the Cross. 'In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we have loved God but that He loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.' 1 John (4,9-12).

Jesus knew He was to die. That is why He said to His mother, "my time has not come yet' and in the garden, when he was being betrayed by a friend for 30 pieces of silver, he sweated blood in abject fear of what was to come. That was a momentary separation from His father, for God cannot know sin, when he took the punishment we all deserve, and will face if we live and die separated from God, not turning to him for forgiveness. Only God can forgive sin and when Jesus forgave sins the hypocritical religious crowd had him executed for blasphemy unaware that they were murdering God who had come into human history to rescue them from their religion.

How did Jesus came to speak to the Father if He was God? To answer that we need an appreciation of his divine and human natures:

"Who being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made Himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness" (Philippians 2:6-7).

At the Incarnation, Christ took on a second nature -- a human nature. The pre-incarnate Christ had one nature (divine); the incarnate Christ had two natures (one fully divine, and one fully human). By taking on a human nature he is not a distant, disconnected god, but a connected, personal God, who has lived as we have lived, though without sin, been through pain, grief, hard work, wept, laughed and struggled. This is the nature of our God, a loving father, who loved us so that we may love, and died for us so that we may live.

Have a good and joyful day.

Salaam

Adrian, you may want to check the priests/pastors/missionaries that have embraced Islam: Yusuf Estes, Idris Tawfiq; Dr. Jerald F. Dirks, Joshua Evans (youth pastor); Abdullah al-Faruq - Formerly Kenneth L. Jenkins, minister and elder of the Pentecostal Church , Khadijah 'Sue' Watson - Former pastor, missionary, professor. Master's degree in Divinity, George Anthony - Former Catholic priest, Dr. Gary Miller (Abdul-Ahad Omar) - Former missionary.

Mr.Harley_Quin

I have to say Adrian and Saleem that you are both arguing with a false dilemma.

If A insists that unicorns only eat grass and B is sure they they only eat leaves, you are ignoring the fact that unicorns do not exist.