'What religion are you?' poll discussion

Salaam

Adrian Clark: "...none have had the profound effect on human history that Jesus Christ has had..."

According to some historians, they dispute your claim:

"I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today." --G.B. Shaw, THE GENUINE ISLAM, Vol. 1, No. 81936.
"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level." --Michael H. Hart, THE 100: A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HISTORY, New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc., 1978, p. 33.
"Four years after the death of Justinian, A.D. 569, was born at Mecca, in Arabia the man who, of all men exercised the greatest influence upon the human race . . . Mohammed . . . " John William Draper, M.D., L.L.D., A History of the Intellectual Development of Europe, London 1875, Vol.1, pp.329-330
"I am not a Muslim in the usual sense, though I hope I am a "Muslim" as "one surrendered to God," but I believe that embedded in the Quran and other expressions of the Islamic vision are vast stores of divine truth from which I and other occidentals have still much to learn, and 'Islam is certainly a strong contender for the supplying of the basic framework of the one religion of the future.'" --W. Montgomery Watt, ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY TODAY, London, 1983, p. ix.
"His readiness to undergo persecutions for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement - all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad." --W. Montgomery Watt, MOHAMMAD AT MECCA, Oxford, 1953, p. 52.

Mr.Harley_Quin

Saleem, again I want to offer balance. Here is Winston Churchill. "How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

It is fair to say all theist systems can be seen as good or bad, and I also feel it must be time to ditch these myths and tales and work together as human kind. Imagine if you could take religion out of some of the issues of today. It would just be a bunch of people arguing over land. We can work things out. Religion prevents us.

adrian_clark

Mr.Harley_Quin wrote: »

Saleem, again I want to offer balance. Here is Winston Churchill. "How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

It is fair to say all theist systems can be seen as good or bad, and I also feel it must be time to ditch these myths and tales and work together as human kind. Imagine if you could take religion out of some of the issues of today. It would just be a bunch of people arguing over land. We can work things out. Religion prevents us.

Exactly, that's what Jesus came to do, take religion out of the issues of the day. And unsurprisingly having called the priests a bunch of hypocrites, amongst many other choice phrases that upset the paid religious professionals, they had him tortured and murdered.

Imagine if we could take religion out of the issues. Imagine if we could all take up our cross and follow the God who came into human history to show us Love, love to the point of laying down His life to take our punishment. That's the point, the work was done at the cross, there is no need to follow religions to merit your salvation, no need to climb the slippery pole to success, no need to get a big hat and a frock, take your family to live in Israel, retreat to a mountain to get cosmic karma, go on a Haj. Your salvation is a gift paid for by the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, you simply turn from rebellion to Him because He is your loving father, who loves his children beyond all measure, more than you could ever imagine.

Jesus is alive, evidenced by the birth and growth of his church, the ongoing generosity, compassion and service of His people and the reason why perfectly normal and reasonable people, from all walks of life, economic situations, educational ability, creeds, ethnicities and tribes worship Him as the Creator God of the Universe. Yes there are many counterfeit religions, scientific theories, philosophical ideas and atheistic claims but none with the exclusive claim of Jesus Christ, that "I am the Truth, the Life and the Way." He said He was God, no other prophet, scientist or philosopher, of any substance or merit, has made that claim and been taken seriously. Jesus was and is taken seriously and you have to decide if He was speaking the Truth as I believe or, as some claim, was lying.

MothballsWallet

mojomozzer2010 wrote: »

That's really sad Harry Flashman, you are right about it being hot though! Truth is, Hell won't be a wild party, you will be alone and in torment, unable to communicate with anyone , burning hot and with an unquenchable thirst and for all eternity will be falling into a bottomless pit, check out what the Bible says about the place. You can avoid it though, please study God's Word to see what it says and then Repent and Trust in the Saviour. I don't want you to go to hell, please reconsider, tonight God may run out of patience with you and then it will be too late!

I thought God had infinite patience and love - are you saying that all of the pro-God faction who say this are lying? Does that mean they will be sent to hell too?

I really wish that some of the posters on this thread would stop trying to convince us to change religions, isn't that against the forum rules?

adrian_clark

MothballsWallet wrote: »

I thought God had infinite patience and love - are you saying that all of the pro-God faction who say this are lying? Does that mean they will be sent to hell too?

I really wish that some of the posters on this thread would stop trying to convince us to change religions, isn't that against the forum rules?

Rest assured nobody is trying to persuade you to change religion simply point out who you are up against. There is one creator God of the universe who is omniscient and omnipresent who rules and reigns over time, the universe and everything. That God exists as the three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, existing forever, eternally, a continual outpouring of Love, living in unity and service.

He is not a distant, capricious being, but a God of love and justice. He is patient and you have this life to choose life with Him or death for eternity. If you die having decided to live separated from Him, believing the religions, theories and ideas that seek to persuade you that there is no God then your choice will be granted, your 'free will' will be honoured and the conscious, torments of Hell is where your soul will reside separated from God, just as you want.

Your God is a father, he is Love and He is a God of justice. You cannot go live in his Kingdom if you have not asked for His forgiveness or shown indifference towards Him, that would not be just or loving. That's the good news for the oppressed and suffering - there will ultimately be justice. This good news accounts for the continued growth of His church. There are now 390 million Christians in Africa, three times more than 35 years ago. The Chinese Academy of Social Sciences reports that there are 23.05 million faithful Jesus following Christians in China. If the trends across the world continue then the number of Christians in China alone will far outnumber those in Western Europe.

The point is that God is working in every tribe, tongue, ethnicity, nation and people group. He loves all His children which is why He sent His Son, to live a perfect life, a humble life as a poor Galilean construction worker and an itinerant penniless preacher, and pay the price for our sin by his death, so that you and me could live, from today into eternity. Jesus Christ is our God who came into human history to rescue His people, He hears your prayers, knows your heart and thoughts and love you more than you could imagine. Pray to him, ask His forgiveness and He will send His Holy Spirit to be with you through the trials, struggles, loneliness and pain of life. Have a great Sunday. Take a look at the Mars Hill Church .org site for more information.

MothballsWallet

adrian: One of the suggestions from Google for that church has the word "cult" at the end of it, so, I'll pass. Oh, and "he" isn't "my" God.

adrian_clark wrote: »

Jesus Christ is our God

This is the bit that caught my eye as surely it is blasphemy (which is still illegal in this country) - God is God, Jesus Christ is the son of God, according to Christian beliefs and teachings.

bulletproof_1979

adrian_clark wrote: »

He is not a distant, capricious being, but a God of love and justice. He is patient and you have this life to choose life with Him or death for eternity. If you die having decided to live separated from Him, believing the religions, theories and ideas that seek to persuade you that there is no God then your choice will be granted, your 'free will' will be honoured and the conscious, torments of Hell is where your soul will reside separated from God, just as you want.

What of all those who live lives without even being given the choice of christianity, those in distant remote tribes, who never know of its existance to name but some? Eternity in hell for ignorance? Seems just a bit on the malicious side to me.

I'm not sure why I'm bothering to ask this question, as you'll no doubt ignore it as you have with all the other valid questions you've side stepped and ignored in this thread. If your faith is so strong you should either have an answer for such questions or a concern as to what the answer could be. Anything else is intellectual dishonesty.

bulletproof_1979

adrian_clark wrote: »

Jesus is alive, evidenced by the birth and growth of his church...

The fastest growing Church in the world today is the church of Scientology. I'm presuming you don't see this as evidence of the existance of Lord Xenu?

Grimbal

robin_banks wrote: »

Pastafarian.

goosemonster wrote: »

All praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster

jgriggle wrote: »

I too have been touched by His Noodly Appendage.

rAmen brothers as I in addition to all you other enlightened followers have seen the truth - he boiled for our sins

adrian_clark

bulletproof_1979 wrote: »

What of all those who live lives without even being given the choice of christianity, those in distant remote tribes, who never know of its existance to name but some? Eternity in hell for ignorance? Seems just a bit on the malicious side to me.

I'm not sure why I'm bothering to ask this question, as you'll no doubt ignore it as you have with all the other valid questions you've side stepped and ignored in this thread. If your faith is so strong you should either have an answer for such questions or a concern as to what the answer could be. Anything else is intellectual dishonesty.

It's a great question thank you, and one I have wrestled with before. What about a son born deep in the mountains of the North West Frontier of Pakistan, say Baluchistan. That child may be brought in a strict Islamic family and never hear the truth about the life of Jesus. He may not know that God came into human history, as the man Jesus Christ, the third person of the one trinitarian God. He knows that there is one God but he doesn't that God is Jesus Christ. Consider that like a good Muslim he takes up a weapon to defend his village because he hears foreigners are coming to kill his family and in the ensuing battle is killed. Does that son, who may be no more than say fifteen, go to Hell? What about the many who have gone before and furthermore, what about before the birth of Christ? What about the early man, who didn't write, had no contact with the outside world, who hunted and died in complete ignorance? He had no idea of God walking with the tribe Israel, promising to send a saviour and make them a great nation more numerous than the stars?

To answer the questions I can tell you what I do know. We, mankind, only see in part. We know what we need to know not what we want to know. It says in Deuteronomy 29:29 that the secret things belong to the Lord. I also know that Jesus Christ did walk on the earth and believe with my mind, soul and strength that he died and rose again from the dead as witnessed by hundreds and history records. Of course you cannot come to these beliefs purely on intellectual analysis, there is a requirement for faith. Faith comes through hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ, Romans 10:17. So I know that God is a God of love and justice, proven through His suffering and sacrifice at the cross. I know that He is Father, a Dad, who loves His kids, no matter race, nation, physical impairment or intellectual ability. I know He has a special place in His heart for widows, orphans and the poor. I do not decide who gets and doesn't get saved to live in His eternal Kingdom, with their Dad, enjoying His Love forever. But I do know that those who hear the name of Jesus Christ have a chance to repent, turn to Him and get a new heart, new desires, longings, and a sense of purpose as men or women.

Our God of love undoubtedly has a plan of salvation for those who never get to hear the Gospel, however, they are increasing fewer as time progresses. For othes there are no excuses. Romans 1:19 says, for what can be known about God is plain to them. For his invisible attributes, namely his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

That's the best answer I have. If you want to know more I can reassure you that Mars Hill Church in Seattle offers mainstream Christian teaching, it holds nothing to fear despite anything odd Google may say. There are some great video testimonies and all kinds of useful, free stuff to help understand what all us crazy Jesus freaks are getting so excited about every day.