The Bankruptcy Club & Supporters Club

sandralovescats

babaodo wrote:

This is not quite true. I work for the Insolvency Service. There is some variation depending on which OR office you go to but the OR CANNOT disclaim a motor vehicle or exempt it on the grounds that it is not worth much money.

Generally speaking, if a car is used for work, to look for work or if the user is a registered carer then the car can be made exempt...as long as it is not deemed too valuable for the purpose...usually around the £2-3K mark.

Cars worth less than that cannot be made exempt for the above reasons are usually dealt with by the OR asking the owner to make a reasonable offer for the vehicle and then finding a third party willing to pay the money to the OR. Of course, you cannot offer the money yourself, as if you had it the OR can (and should) claim it as part of the estate.

Hope this helps

Exactly! I was speaking specifically about Sarah and her own personal circumstances, which is exactly what the OR will do .What I told Sarah is true-

She needs the car
Her car is worth very little

In this case the OR wouldn't ask for any payment to be made to keep her car.

They are living on mostly State Benefits, it wouldn't be appropriate for the OR to do any other.

flis21

rog2 wrote:

Hi Sarah, From my experience, with OR, they will ask you if you have a computer, but provided you need it for work, or searching for work, they will probably not be interested.

I am worried now, we have a computer, but it is nearly 10 years old. We have replaced a couple of bits in it, so it still works, but it is not worth very much. We do not need the computer for work tho, so will they want to take it off us? I hope not, as I doubt anyone would give you £50 for it, but I use it a lot, especially for keeping in touch with people, so phone bill would probably go up without it.

babaodo

sandralovescats wrote:

Exactly! I was speaking specifically about Sarah and her own personal circumstances, which is exactly what the OR will do .What I told Sarah is true-

She needs the car
Her car is worth very little

In this case the OR wouldn't ask for any payment to be made to keep her car.

They are living on mostly State Benefits, it wouldn't be appropriate for the OR to do any other.

But what does she need the car for? If it is not for travelling to work or looking for work then it CANNOT be exempt...school runs count for nothing. The value of the car is totally irrelevant...so is the fact a bankrupt is on benefits. It cannot be exempt on the grounds of low value. If it is not used for the above then an offer must be made for the car by the bankrupt's third party. The OR has to take recovery costs into consideration (car agents charge the OR for collection and sale) and, therefore all reasonable offers on low value cars are usually considered.

sarah_skint

sandra the 455 on my income is my partners contribution to the household, i pay all household bills, my only income is benefits.

sarah_skint

sorry sandra, i may have read your reply wrong, does that mean the 455 is the figure to go on regarding the chart you listed before on surplus income?

rog2

flis21 wrote:

I am worried now, we have a computer, but it is nearly 10 years old. We have replaced a couple of bits in it, so it still works, but it is not worth very much. We do not need the computer for work tho, so will they want to take it off us? I hope not, as I doubt anyone would give you £50 for it, but I use it a lot, especially for keeping in touch with people, so phone bill would probably go up without it.

You should say exactly that to the OR - in my experience, admittedly limited, the OR is going to look at the broader picture. A 10 year old computer is not really going to raise much towards your overall debt in bankruptcy - it would probably cost more to sell than it would raise, bearing in mind that it would need collecting, all personal details erased and electrical certification before it can be legally sold. I don't think the OR is likely to be that petty.

sandralovescats

sarah_skint wrote:

sorry sandra, i may have read your reply wrong, does that mean the 455 is the figure to go on regarding the chart you listed before on surplus income?

Sarah, please forget about the IPA chart, or any payments - you won't get an IPA at all.

sandralovescats

babaodo wrote:

But what does she need the car for? If it is not for travelling to work or looking for work then it CANNOT be exempt...school runs count for nothing. The value of the car is totally irrelevant...so is the fact a bankrupt is on benefits. It cannot be exempt on the grounds of low value. If it is not used for the above then an offer must be made for the car by the bankrupt's third party. The OR has to take recovery costs into consideration (car agents charge the OR for collection and sale) and, therefore all reasonable offers on low value cars are usually considered.

Sarah needs her car to ferry children around to school and home, etc. - the OR will not want it!
Furthermore, if the OR does take the car away from Sarah it will be a fabulous story for their local newspaper!

Similarly, would you like to tell me how much a 10 year old computer is worth? Exactly, very little, next to nothing. My computer is nearly three years old and is worth about £50 if that.

Go and read the insolvency service website regarding the disregarding of State Benefits in the IPA system. Income Support and Child Benefit are paid in order for the family to live, in this case for Sarah and four children, plus her maintenance.

I quote -


"State pensions, like other state benefits and allowances, do not form part of a bankrupt’s estate" (section 187 of the Social Security Administration Act 1992).

If the State Benefit does not form part of a bankrupt's estate, then it cannot be included towards an IPA.

The CAB told Sarah a whole load of rubbish re the car. A car worth £400 is not worth the effort for the OR to trail to an auction - he would lose more money than he makes. Let's get some reality here. We are not talking about a fabulously wealthy couple who live a life of luxury, we are talking about a family who are struggling, trying to juggle home, family and bills.


If you do, in reality, work for the insolvency service, then I can see that you are here to hinder and not to help.

sarah_skint

sandra - could you see anything that i had forgotten on my soa?

sandralovescats

sarah_skint wrote:

income
income support/ctc 673.62
c-benefit 227.72
maintenance 211.00
partner 455.00

1567.34




outgoings
rent 259.61
c-tax 86
water 19
gas 37
electric 30
housekeeping 670
telephone 80
tv license 11
transport 60
clothes 110
internet 16

1378.61

Hi,

Is you housekeeping just food? Have you included nappies in that?

Why is your telephone £80 per month? It seems awfully high! BT have a new tariff out - free evening and weekend calls BT Together 2 for £11 per month, for one year, but you sign up for 18 months, the last 6 months you pay £14.95 per month. You can sign up until 31/12/06.

You need to add an allowance for Birthdays/Christmas/Holidays as it is allowed in br, but not an IVA. You have four children so Christmas and birthdays are important for them if for nobody else!

You also add an amount for "incidentals" - for one person they usually add £40, so for your whole family, I would add £80.

I will see what else I can think of!