Postman signed for letter when we were not at home

custardy

Geniushappy wrote: »

Custard:

you obvisouly know a lot more than me on the contractural obligations of RM, but how far does this goto be legal. What exactly are the minimal legal requiremnets of RM in terms of delivery. to deliver as addressed

If a postie has very kindly signed something for me and I claimed I didn't recive it, the worse that could happen to RM under the lterms of the contract is they pay someone 10xpostage. no the sender could claim up to 100X the cost of a 1st class stamp,£41 just now

At worse this would be a civil matter, not criminal?? no,interference and delay of mail is a criminal offense

As we have all probably had experience with DVLA that claiming they have received a recorded delivery because someone signed for it gets you absolutely no where. (dont like the DVLA do like Royal mail though).
well RM should have a robust system where every signed for item(to the best of their abilities) is signed for.then the matter rest at the recipients door(no pun intended)
If Posties were banned from signing for deliveries they would (especially to me) become pretty redundant.

99+% of my mail is junk mail, all my billing, banking and communincation is done online. If I need something to be posted it is therefore important and I request is sent special delivery at worse, recorded.
I hate UPS, fedex and the like and only order things online that are posted RM if necessary PF. This is because I know that the Postie will sign for it or leave with a neighbour, if not it goes to local post office or Sorting office, due to the ridiculous times these are open I usually cant get it for sometime. my old office is open 12-13 hours a day mon-fri,7 hours on a Sat.its whats called a trial office where it has most of RM's new practices in place.the opening hours are about the only one that benefits the customer.

If he is not going to sign might as well send all my stuff to the local sorting office/post office for me to pick up Sat Morning and save Posty a journey and a job. Seal up my letterbox so I dont get the junk. that would be wilful delay and a criminal matter. a sealed letterbox would deem the property unnacessable and all mail returned as such.

I am still wiating for one of the delivery firms to provide a standard domestic delivery service that is of any use ie delivers when people or in or dleiver to local centre where things can be picked up after 6pm, RM is in best situation to do this due to its number of sorting offices.
which are being reduced as RM cuts back
eg http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/business/Former-sorting-office-sold-for.6571083.jp

this led to offices being displaced out to house the delivery postcodes covered by this. so peoples 'local' office can now be miles away.
Gone of track from thread a little there, apologies

off topic rules

bris

Yip my postie does it too, saves me a 6 mile round trip to pick it up. In future just ask that you don't want him signing your letters for you any more.

Pollycat

custardy wrote: »

you see,many customers saw me as a terrible postie
I wouldnt doorstep packages
i wouldnt sign for items
i wouldnt pass mail over in the street

however by the same token
i closed every gate i opened
never cut over peoples gardens
never left my bag unattended

now the ironic part
the managers would see me as a bad postie.
why? because i did all of the above it takes more time
so a guy leaving packets on the door,shoving through signed items,cutting over gardens etc would be quicker
they would have less to carry as they get rid of all their packets
but are they better at their job because they are quicker?

Custardy
I'd actually see you as an ideal postie.

Quicker is not always better.

olly300

custardy wrote: »

you see,many customers saw me as a terrible postie

I have no problem with a postman doing one or another as long as it's consistent.

The issue at the moment because postman do different rounds all the time there is no consistency.

Though it doesn't help that I sometimes do the RM survey.

May have to go back to do that as the postmen they send round standards are starting to slip again....

custardy

Pollycat wrote: »

Custardy
I'd actually see you as an ideal postie.

Quicker is not always better.

tell that to guys being harrassed daily and(to quote the managers) "managed out the business"

custardy

olly300 wrote: »

I have no problem with a postman doing one or another as long as it's consistent.

The issue at the moment because postman do different rounds all the time there is no consistency.

Though it doesn't help that I sometimes do the RM survey.

May have to go back to do that as the postmen they send round standards are starting to slip again....

the thing is(and I know it isnt the same for all offices yet) this is the future
my old office lurches from day to day
staffing levels are too low
duties too long
staff are under pressure from the minute they come in
many come in early and dont take breaks to cope,
if you take breaks then you can expect to get extra management attention.
starting on time and taking your break is seen as a militant action.
then theres the infamous lapsing.
taking part of another duty to make sure you work the full day.great,no problem
except in my old office its used to cover staff shortfalls
so they lapse 6 days a week regardless of mail volumes
so you have staff lapsing and working over to complete their duties.
if you want/need to finish on time then you will get extra management attention
oh i could go on

Pollycat

custardy wrote: »

tell that to guys being harrassed daily and(to quote the managers) "managed out the business"

I would if it would make it any better for them, but of course it wouldn't.

Geniushappy

So the two main laws that are covering this (outside the contract bewteen the two parties) are

Willfull Delay of the Mail:
With my Posty doing the opposite I cant see how he could be done for this.
In reference to me doing this for sealing my letter box, this is a question I already put to RM sometime ago and it is perfectly legal as long as it is not someone elses! You are correct mail would just be returned as not accesible, blame would be on me for not receiving any legal letters etc.

and Interfering with the Mail: this requires mail to be opened by someone it is not adressed to which nobody is doing.

In terms of delivering to the correct address, there are the pre-printed RM cards that show left with neighbour as an option, as you say there is no diference between parcels and letters (recorded) therefore this could apply to recorded mail.

I like many was shocked to get (and only in last 12 months) to get mail signed by my postie, bu it is such a wide spread practice that RM must know and condone it?

custardy

Geniushappy wrote: »

So the two main laws that are covering this (outside the contract bewteen the two parties) are

Willfull Delay of the Mail:
With my Posty doing the opposite I cant see how he could be done for this.
In reference to me doing this for sealing my letter box, this is a question I already put to RM sometime ago and it is perfectly legal as long as it is not someone elses! You are correct mail would just be returned as not accesible, blame would be on me for not receiving any legal letters etc.

and Interfering with the Mail: this requires mail to be opened by someone it is not adressed to which nobody is doing.

In terms of delivering to the correct address, there are the pre-printed RM cards that show left with neighbour as an option, as you say there is no diference between parcels and letters (recorded) therefore this could apply to recorded mail.

I like many was shocked to get (and only in last 12 months) to get mail signed by my postie, bu it is such a wide spread practice that RM must know and condone it?

know and condone.know? yes
condone.hmm well
lets break it down
if a postie is on delivery and just signing(or not even bothering) for and item
it means they take less time to deliver as they arent writing cards out
that means less items held in the office,so less indoor work
RM managers at a local office level work on the "if the mails out the door then everythings fine" principle
go to a manager and say you cant do your large packets.they will say just take them anyway.
they know you arent delivering them and you know you wont.
however it means if an auditer comes in then they dont have to explain why the packets have failed.
so the big bosses are happy they can tick their boxes off
the local managers can keep the illusion its working.

its all smoke and mirrors.
RM pay lip service to the service but dont really care.
managers will get a complaint about X failure.lets say a postie signing for an RD.
for a week or two they will be checking up on that service.
after that its all forgotten about

Bunter_2

Thanks for the detailed information custardy. Now I understand why you are an "ex-postie". I did not realize that the RM (workers) were under so much pressure.

I have made use of recorded delivery a number of times over the past year or so and I can vouch that the service is not all it is cracked up to be. The blurb on the RM site actually says.

"If you have an important item to deliver, our Recorded Signed For™ service gives you complete peace of mind with proof of posting and an electronic copy of the signature available online."

I think an unwitting customer would take this to mean that the recipient (or, as you have pointed out, someone residing at that address) is the one who would be required to sign for the item.

If someone sent me a recorded letter I would be quite happy for the postie to sign for it and pop it in my letter box. It would save me getting out of bed. But I live in a block of flats. What would happen if he put it in the wrong box by mistake? (as sometimes happens). I would then report it missing and he would have some explaining to do. Probably the person who got it by mistake would give it to me; but you cannot be certain. Not all neighbours are "good" neighbours.

I recently had to send some important documents to the Department of Works and Pensions. The DWP do not send acknowledgements so the only way you "know" that they have got the documents is if you send them by recorded delivery. My expectation is that the letter will be signed for by some one at the DWP and not the postie. That would defeat the object of sending it recorded.

I am simply trying to point out to some of the posters here that people have different expectations of what the signed for / recorded delivery service offers. It may suit some to have the postie sign for their letters but it does not suit all.

For the RM to deliver the service that they claim to offer would obviously mean giving staff more time to do the deliveries. It would be interesting to know what the profit margins of RM are? Are they just scraping even or are they making loads of dosh and squeezing their employees for maximum return of labour?

My own conclusion is that recorded / signed for service is basically an insecure service. It may be more secure than ordinary mail but it is still quite vulnerable.

Nevertheless, my guess is that most recorded delivery letters do get delivered (as do most ordinary letters).

If the system fails then RM only have to shell out a max of £41; and I think I am right in saying you have to prove that the package was to the value of £41. If the contents were simply documents (albeit important documents) then I guess you would not get anything since presumably they would have no monetary value.

Apologies for the long post. I cannot get to sleep.