Postman signed for letter when we were not at home

Tom_Jones

saltnvinegar wrote: »

Yes I got the letter but thats not the point.

As it happens, it was a letter from our solicitors with important documents in it.

If we hadn't received them, our solicitors would have been saying 'but you signed for them'.

The whole point of paying for a 'signed for' service is that you know the recipient signed for it., and as a recipient I know it shouldn't be delivered unless I sign for it.

If I'm not in at the time, thats my problem. Its not up to the postman to decide whats in my interests in terms of time and money.

So, back to the original question which is should the postman have done this or not?

Stop being so PATHETIC :mad::mad:

lucylucky

Tom_Jones wrote: »

Stop being so PATHETIC :mad::mad:

Pathetic - in what way?

And why so angry?

Pollycat

I don't think the OP is being pathetic.

Maybe a little eager to complain when there's no long term harm done, but he/she is perfectly entitled to do so under the circumstances.
The postie should not have signed for the letter in the first place.

I personally would cut the postie some slack and be clear that next time a card should be left.

exel1966

saltnvinegar wrote: »

The sender, obviously is now claiming we have signed for it, when we have done no such thing.

Why would your solicitor be claiming anything unless there was a problem and you've told them you didn't receive it ? have you been telling porkies ? Did you not want the important letter from your solicitor ? This doesn't add up at all. Are you trying to avoid something here ?

What if this were a legal letter and we had not received it but had been signed for by the postman?

What if ? based on your later comments of ;-

As it happens, it was a letter from our solicitors with important documents in it

It's all very hyperthetical or the OP is hiding some rather important factual info from this to put a very different slant on things !

mjm3346

saltnvinegar wrote: »

Hi All

Before I call Royal Mail and make a complaint I just want to find out the position on this.

Yesterday we were out most of the day and return home to find a letter (which required a signature) had been delivered, so I assume has been signed for by the postman.

The sender, obviously is now claiming we have signed for it, when we have done no such thing.

What would is the position here? Should the postman have signed for it?

What if this were a legal letter and we had not received it but had been signed for by the postman?

Thanks in advance

SnV

If you still have the envelope you can put the tracking number on the royal mail website "track and trace" and check the signature.

Why is the sender "claiming" you signed for it, surely that would only arise if you were claiming not to have received the letter?

Geniushappy

Some people believe recorded delivery has a higher degree of importance that it really has.
Normal post (with post office) just disapperars into the system with no record of anyone receiving it or where it is, recorded delivery is just an improvemnet on this. Post office records it got it and its delivery is recorded.

There is no legal requirement to say who signs for it at the other end. Anyone could sign for it, no proof of it being you. A neighbour can sign it. Its just there to see what has happened to the item.

My post man always signs, i am grateful for it. I thought he may be in a minority but from oter post obviosuly not. I wouldnt be suprised if the Post office wasn't too concerned then. The reson they didn't (told by friend who used to be a post man) recommend it as the Post man is taking responsibility to say that it got there and if there was any questions he would be dragged into the situation.

Only reason this would be an issue is if the letter/item went missing between the letter box and your floor or you want to deny reciving something when you did. if thats the case ask him nicely not to sign.

Only time it has been an issue is when I ordered an item (that could fit through letter box) by accident and the suplier said the easy way around it to get iot sent back for free was not to sign for it. Posty did sign for it so I had to sort and pay postage back. However he could of easily left it with someone who didn't know or a neighbour so i am not going to complain, especially taking into account all the jopurneys he has saved me.

custardy

Geniushappy wrote: »

Some people believe recorded delivery has a higher degree of importance that it really has.
Normal post (with post office) just disapperars into the system with no record of anyone receiving it or where it is, recorded delivery is just an improvemnet on this. Post office records it got it and its delivery is recorded.there is no requirement it goes via post office

There is no legal requirement to say who signs for it at the other end. Anyone could sign for it, no proof of it being you. A neighbour can sign it. Its just there to see what has happened to the item. not quite.it should be signed for by someone resident at the delivery address

My post man always signs, i am grateful for it. I thought he may be in a minority but from oter post obviosuly not. I wouldnt be suprised if the Post office wasn't too concerned then. The reson they didn't (told by friend who used to be a post man) recommend it as the Post man is taking responsibility to say that it got there and if there was any questions he would be dragged into the situation. the post offcie wont be concerned,Royal Mail on the other hand would be. it would be reasons for conduct code and possibly dismissal.i dont know about you but i didnt risk my job to save someone a trip to collect an item

Only reason this would be an issue is if the letter/item went missing between the letter box and your floor or you want to deny reciving something when you did. if thats the case ask him nicely not to sign.
it is an issue for the sender and possibly the recipient.

Only time it has been an issue is when I ordered an item (that could fit through letter box) by accident and the suplier said the easy way around it to get iot sent back for free was not to sign for it. Posty did sign for it so I had to sort and pay postage back. However he could of easily left it with someone who didn't know or a neighbour so i am not going to complain, especially taking into account all the jopurneys he has saved me. delivery spec is not to sign for items or leave them with neighbours without an official safeplace

............................................................

Geniushappy

Custardy

First off I was talking about the RM in all cases, apologies for my blasphemy of linking post office and RM together, so Post Office in my above post, meant to say RM. Us poor civilians sometimes don't seperate the two.

I was also comparing recorded delivery to normal post put in letter boxes. the thread is based on recoded delivery letters. peolpe are used to signing for parcels but not for letters so put a certain reverence to recorded delivery letters.

You are absolutely right if you send something by the Post office (mean PO this time) you can ask for proof of sending, but you normally have to ask for it.

I have asked my ex-posty friend and he still stipulates there is no legal requirement for someone resident to sign for the delivery. If it was he wouldnt do it and certain not leave note saying I did it. The only consequence is that the person says they didint receive it and then RM may have to pay out comp, therefore he only does for people he trusts but it is down to the individual Postman. Only real dressing down occors if they have done something particularly stupid. he has never heard of a dismissal over it, but he is an ex-postie so things may have changed.
he mentioned that the practice of posties signing comes from a previous delivery type which required them to sign for mail so many carried it on with recorded deliveries

Asking in the office most people have said they also have recorded mail signed for by the postman so seems very wide practice for something illegal.

A letter not being sent or received is an issue for both parties but recorded doesnt give you much protection in that matter. As it definatley doesnt have to be signed for by the person it is addressed for it cant have any legal ramifications.

Your final comments refers to parcels, which may prefer not to be signed or left with neighbours but they are and we are glad of it and such a wide spread practice RM are abviously aware of.

Main point still stands peolple put to much emphasis on recorded delivery. it is stuck with the main post and large proportion are not even signed for. I will ask my excellent Postman tomorrow (I am off, so at home) if he is putting himself in trouble by signing my recorded deliveries and if he is i will ask him to stop

custardy

Geniushappy wrote: »

Custardy

First off I was talking about the RM in all cases, apologies for my blasphemy of linking post office and RM together, so Post Office in my above post, meant to say RM. Us poor civilians sometimes don't seperate the two.

I was also comparing recorded delivery to normal post put in letter boxes. the thread is based on recoded delivery letters. peolpe are used to signing for parcels but not for letters so put a certain reverence to recorded delivery letters. maybe in your opinion. ive never seen the difference in either?

You are absolutely right if you send something by the Post office (mean PO this time) you can ask for proof of sending, but you normally have to ask for it.

I have asked my ex-posty friend and he still stipulates there is no legal requirement for someone resident to sign for the delivery. RM deliver to addresses,not people.ergo the stipulation is deliver as addressed. so the legal requirement is to deliver to the address and obtain a signature.A.N Other who happens to live in close vicinity doesnt come into it If it was he wouldnt do it and certain not leave note saying I did it. The only consequence is that the person says they didint receive it and then RM may have to pay out comp,you may think its the only consequence.however who are you or any other person bar the sender/recipient to say that? therefore he only does for people he trusts but it is down to the individual Postman. Only real dressing down occors if they have done something particularly stupid. he has never heard of a dismissal over it, but he is an ex-postie so things may have changed. yes he is wrong on this. I know of a postie who is suspended pending a gross misconduct meeting for this very thing
he mentioned that the practice of posties signing comes from a previous delivery type which required them to sign for mail so many carried it on with recorded deliveries

Asking in the office most people have said they also have recorded mail signed for by the postman so seems very wide practice for something illegal. becasue RM dont care until it flags up as an issue.just 2 weeks ago the staff in my old DO were reminded(and made to sign a document relating to it) that there is no policy to sign for items,leave items on the doorstep etc except for an official safeplace.they were told it would be a conduct code matter.

A letter not being sent or received is an issue for both parties but recorded doesnt give you much protection in that matter. As it definatley doesnt have to be signed for by the person it is addressed for it cant have any legal ramifications. it does however require to be signed for by someone at the property.so you see,a neighbour signing for the item isnt ideal?

Your final comments refers to parcels, which may prefer not to be signed or left with neighbours but they are and we are glad of it and such a wide spread practice RM are abviously aware of. see above.RM dont care until its an issue.then they will happily throw the member of staff to the wolves

Main point still stands peolple put to much emphasis on recorded delivery. it is stuck with the main post and large proportion are not even signed for. I will ask my excellent Postman tomorrow (I am off, so at home) if he is putting himself in trouble by signing my recorded deliveries and if he is i will ask him to stop many posties are still under the illusion of ye olde RM. it usually takes one of them to be dragged over the coals to be woken up to this

you see,many customers saw me as a terrible postie
I wouldnt doorstep packages
i wouldnt sign for items
i wouldnt pass mail over in the street

however by the same token
i closed every gate i opened
never cut over peoples gardens
never left my bag unattended

now the ironic part
the managers would see me as a bad postie.
why? because i did all of the above it takes more time
so a guy leaving packets on the door,shoving through signed items,cutting over gardens etc would be quicker
they would have less to carry as they get rid of all their packets
but are they better at their job because they are quicker?

Geniushappy

Custard:

you obvisouly know a lot more than me on the contractural obligations of RM, but how far does this goto be legal. What exactly are the minimal legal requiremnets of RM in terms of delivery.

If a postie has very kindly signed something for me and I claimed I didn't recive it, the worse that could happen to RM under the lterms of the contract is they pay someone 10xpostage.

At worse this would be a civil matter, not criminal??

As we have all probably had experience with DVLA that claiming they have received a recorded delivery because someone signed for it gets you absolutely no where. (dont like the DVLA do like Royal mail though).

If Posties were banned from signing for deliveries they would (especially to me) become pretty redundant.

99+% of my mail is junk mail, all my billing, banking and communincation is done online. If I need something to be posted it is therefore important and I request is sent special delivery at worse, recorded.
I hate UPS, fedex and the like and only order things online that are posted RM if necessary PF. This is because I know that the Postie will sign for it or leave with a neighbour, if not it goes to local post office or Sorting office, due to the ridiculous times these are open I usually cant get it for sometime.

If he is not going to sign might as well send all my stuff to the local sorting office/post office for me to pick up Sat Morning and save Posty a journey and a job. Seal up my letterbox so I dont get the junk.

I am still wiating for one of the delivery firms to provide a standard domestic delivery service that is of any use ie delivers when people or in or dleiver to local centre where things can be picked up after 6pm, RM is in best situation to do this due to its number of sorting offices.

Gone of track from thread a little there, apologies