Fake beggar earns £23,000 a year

bendix

Heyman wrote: »

Because they present themselves as something they are not - it's always asking for money, not food or drink. As Generali touches on, I fail to see how, in this country with it's welfare system, that the majority of beggars need to do what they do.

I would question your own logic as you appear to be operating from the position that all beggars are polite - some are, some are not. Also, if as the article Gen quotes, 80% have drink or drugs problems then why would you condone people giving money directly to excacerbate drink and drugs issues?

I repeat: irrespective of whether they are polite or not, irrespective of whether they are asking for money or food or drink or drugs or cupcakes, at what point does giving to them or not become a decision outside your control?

It is a straightforward business transaction. They ask for money for doing nothing other than sit on the streets, I - as a mature rational adult human being - can either say yes or no.

That is not a scam. It is an individual choice.

robin_banks

Heyman wrote: »

Because they present themselves as something they are not - it's always asking for money, not food or drink. As Generali touches on, I fail to see how, in this country with it's welfare system, that the majority of beggars need to do what they do.

I would question your own logic as you appear to be operating from the position that all beggars are polite - some are, some are not. Also, if as the article Gen quotes, 80% have drink or drugs problems then why would you condone people giving money directly to excacerbate drink and drugs issues?

I suppose the benefit system wasn't designed to fund a heavyweight drug habit.

Going back to my point about Camden Town tube station a few weeks back saw a pathetic sight, a woman mid-20's at a guess looked 20 years older, crying effing and blinding that she needed money.

She needed her fix.

Does it exacerbate it ?, maybe, maybe not. Withdrawal symptoms probably worse and will almost certainly require a trip to A&E.

No easy answer on this I'm afraid.

Heyman_2

aliasojo wrote: »

:rotfl:

Ah sorry, I didn't realise it was 'all think the same' day today. You should have warned me, I could have just repeated your own thoughts if that would have been better?

I also didn't realise we were talking extremes here either, sorry, I thought we were discussion the bloke in the OP. My bad.

Not at all, I respect your opinion - and I could argue that the guy in the OP does represent an extreme. I'd be happier if you answered my point to be honest.

PasturesNew

I disagree that it's OK to be approached and I have a 'choice' over what to say, because in such a situation I'd feel intimidated and my response is likely to be disproportionate if they don't accept a mumbled "no". If they tried to hassle me, my self-preservation might go into overload and I'd become irrational/offensive to them - and if they're unstable, it could escalate.

Because of this, I try to cross the road when they're about and feel anxious.

bendix

PasturesNew wrote: »

I disagree that it's OK to be approached and I have a 'choice' over what to say, because in such a situation I'd feel intimidated and my response is likely to be disproportionate if they don't accept a mumbled "no". If they tried to hassle me, my self-preservation might go into overload and I'd become irrational/offensive to them - and if they're unstable, it could escalate.

Because of this, I try to cross the road when they're about and feel anxious.

With respect PN, that says more about you, than it does about them - your sense of awkardness about being asked for money, I mean.

You then muddy the waters by bringing in issues like being harrassed or them becoming irrational or offensive. That is a different issue entirely, and moves from being pure begging / panhandling to the criminal act of demanding money with menace.

The two are different acts.

aliasojo

Heyman wrote: »

Not at all, I respect your opinion - and I could argue that the guy in the OP does represent an extreme. I'd be happier if you answered my point to be honest.

Ok.

1) I don't for one minute believe we would ever have people 'lining the streets'. For all there may be a sizeable group of society who beg, it's still a miniscule amount in the whole scheme of things.

However, just for argument's sake I was walking up Princes Street in Edinburgh and there was a beggar every 10 ft or so, then it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I can either cross the road, ignore them or say no to each and every one of them. Point is, I have a choice how to deal with it. I would only become annoyed if my choice was taken away in some way (cant think how, offhand mind) or if the beggars were intimidating or aggressive.

2) I would not like beggars coming to my door but then I don't believe this is the norm anyway which goes back to my 'extremes' point.

I also don't like cold callers or religious people coming to my door either. They all want something too, so to me, beggars are only as bad as those groups, no worse.

Pete111

Masomnia wrote: »

Not necessarilly. It might add up to less than £27k, but that is all tax free income. If you had a salary of £27,000 you wouldn't be taking home as much as this fella after tax.

I'm from that neck of the woods. Average (and taxable) salaries in Lincoln are well below 20k

I suspect he will be able to survive...!

robin_banks

Pete111 wrote: »

I'm from that neck of the woods. Average (and taxable) salaries in Lincoln are well below 20k

I suspect he will be able to survive...!

I doubt his true 'income' was anywhere near that.

tomterm8

Generali wrote: »

If you get money for begging is it actually an income? I reckon it's more like a series of gifts from passers by.

If this is a job where the beggar has an undeclared income then he should be prosecuted by the Inland Revenue.

I guess it's yet another example of the Government coming down hard on benefit fraudsters but letting the tax fraudsters get away with it.

I don't think it is taxable income, but to get job seekers allowance you need to state that you are available for a job and actively seeking a job... and if you are begging all the time, you can't be using that time to seek a job.

So, yeah, it is fradulent.

What gets me about this is that begging isn't a very productive use of your time. I'm a magic hobbyest, but I know that a good sidewalk magic act can make £100 on a weekday, and £250 a day on bank holidays and weekends... and in addition, there are a lot of pro busking festivals that pay you hundreds of pounds a day just to turn up.

There are circle acts that can pull in £500 a day on the weekend.

Many of these people make much more money than me, when you take into account tax.

yummymummy79

Just seen this is in Lincoln, there aren't that many beggars around here generally so maybe he found a gap in the market? You get a few on a Fri/Sat night, and a couple during the day, but the ones at night get regular visits from the street pastors so I wonder if they knew he wasn't a 'real' one? Quite surprised for it to be here actually, nothing really happens here that is newsworthy!

I don't tend to give anything, used to donate at Christmas and random other times of the year to the local Nomad homeless shelter so at least I knew where my money was going.