Money Moral Dilemma: Should we pay for their cut-short holiday?

Gillsx

If the food was already bought then no I would not give them their money back - why should the rest of you be out of pocket - like you say it was their choice to leave. They could have taken some food with them!
If the food had not been bought then yes I would give them their money for the food back.

Either way, depneds how much you value their friendship.

sailorjohn

I agree with most that the £50 put up for food etc should be refunded, or whatever portion of it has not already been spent,
presumably this was put into a kitty and it is fairly certain that some provisions would already have been purchased. The refund would come out of the kitty not other members pockets. the cost of the boat charter definitely no refund.

WhyIsSavingSoHard

I'm another vote for 'give some of the food money or the food'. Seeing as this trip's already been taken, it's unlikely that there's food available to be given back. Plus, if the food was bought in advance, there'd be no money either. So, my final thought (if there was no money from the food kitty), would be to say "really sorry you dropped, missed and lost out this time, let's have a different type of holiday next time".

foxy4114

No you should not have to pay. If your mate went home because they were ill or there were family issues which needed them to be at home that would be a different thing. However, purely and simply they changed their mind and as such you should not be responsible.

angelahorn

iclayt wrote: »

I can't afford to be moral these days.

I think it would be a moral decision NOT to refund them their share of the charter. If you did refund their share of the hire fee, you'd be creating a perverse incentive for people to drop out of holidays at the slightest sign of dodgy weather (or anything else they didn't like) rather than sticking with it in the hope the weather might improve. And what if you all did that? The people who stuck with it would be left with a larger bill than they had budgeted for. The hire fee is a sunk cost and I cannot think of any ethical reason why you would refund their share of that. Part of being 'moral' is helping other people to do the right thing, after all, and the right thing for the dropouts to do in this situation is take responsibility for themselves and honour their obligations (which it sounds like they are doing - they've not asked for a refund). Think about it this way - if you are a decent person, and you choose to drop out, would you want your friends to be worse off as a result of *your* personal preferences? The food kitty is a different matter - personally I'd give them money or some of the food.

The dropouts may be leaving the hardier friends in a worse situation, not only financially. When people arrange to go on a group holiday, often it's because you WANT to have the whole group there. You might be looking forward to being part of a large group. On a sailing holiday, there might be chores to be shared between you. So when people drop out, they may be leaving the remainder of the holiday group with more work, and less company, than they bargained for. Why on earth would you want to reward them for that?

The exception would be if someone had to drop out because they fell ill. Then friends might offer to compensate them, out of kindness - but it wouldn't be obligatory.

I think the real problem arising here is not the dropouts - they haven't asked for anything. It's the holidaymakers who suggested giving them a refund of their share. They have put the OP in a difficult situation by making him feel like a tightwad if he doesn't go along with them. I don't think you should be embarrassed about politely disagreeing with them though. I'd just say tbat it wasn't appropriate.

Cheers,
Angela

iclayt

angelahorn wrote: »

I think it would be a moral decision NOT to refund them their share of the charter.

The OP states "We paid £250 each for the yacht charter and £50 towards food....The remaining friends suggested we should all give £50 to the ones who left, as they didn’t finish the voyage - but it was their choice."

I can't be the only one who reads this as just concerning a refund for the food? The charter is an entirely different matter and not one that I think is an issue here. No refunds for that, end of.

What I meant by "I can't afford to be moral these days" meant that I wouldn't volunteer to give back money (that had already been spent) to people who chose to leave the goods purchased with it behind them. For a yachting holiday you have to presume a lot of items were bought in bulk in preparation - the only way to get the cash back for those would be to try and return it. Paying back money for things that had already been bought, but not returned and refunded (and would be difficult to return), would leave me out of pocket for the sake of those who chose to leave early.

If there was a spare amount of money that had been allocated, for example, to meals out or alcohol, and HADN'T yet been spent on the actual goods, I would likely ASK for some money back from that. If you don't ask, you don't get. But if there wasn't any ready cash in a jar on the yacht, I wouldn't expect anything. Leaving any holiday early, changing plans, etc, I would expect to incur some costs or losses.

Also, I won't be guilt tripped into parting with some money because another person has suggested it! If they feel strongly that money should be refunded, that's their choice as well, it's not something that I should be forced into.

If the money has already been spent on the food (and as the trip has already happened it's unlikely there's any left to share out!) then to refund for it would be a loss to the ones that DID actually see the holiday through.

You pay your money and take your chances, in this case with the weather and your share of some bags of pasta. Pay back some money if you feel it's the right thing to do and feel morally obligated to do so. If you don't, don't.

mebmate

I expect that you did not spend £500 on food at the beginning of the trip and stow it onboard. Having been on trips like these, you start with enough to be going on with for a few days and then replenish stock as needed. There isn't a lot of room onboard to stow provisions for 10 people.

The assumption then is that as a group you were budgetting for a spend of around £50 per person with that being taken as a deposit. At the end of the trip any shortfall would be made up by all parties and and any surplus would be distributed back. However, that assumption is based on everyone staying the full trip.

From a budgetting perspective, after three people left, you would still have been working on £50 per person but just with a reduced number of people. Therefore the replenishment costs would be less. In all likelihood, if your budget had been about right, there should have been about £150 left over and this would mostly have been from the kitty provision from the three who left. It would therefore be correct to refund those three people £50 each.

On the other hand, you may have decided to use the full kitty and up the budget to £71.43 person, in which case
a) there would be no surplus to distribute
b) the remainder would have benifitted from the three friends who left after the first day

In summary, refund the three quitters their £50 budgetted food deposit (or if you want to make a point just give them back £45) but do not refund the charter cost (which I don't believe was under discussion anyway)

wildthing01

this seems really straightforward to me. if the people had chosen to go home early from a package tour, they would not expect the tour operator to refund them. surely the same applies here? if they had had to leave early due to illness etc, then they should have had travel insurance to cover it. if they chose to go home (when the majority did not), then i think that's their choice, and they lose the cash. i wouldn't expect my friends to pay me if i had done that. i can't imagine why the remianing friends have suggested that they should pay them.

kalpsn2000

As it was their 'choice' to leave then firstly they should lose all the charter cost no question (good friends wouldn't expect any back anyway).

Secondly if the food money has been spent at the start of the trip then its just tough and they should not expect any of that back either. If it hasn't all been spent then give back the £50 less any of their share spent on the first day.

Primrose

No, I wouldn't give the money back. If they're sufficiently skilled in boatmanship to book a sailing holiday, they know that weather is always an unpredictable factor. It was their choice to leave.