Why no 'outrage' on TAX FRAUD, David?

lewisa

reduceditem wrote: »

Try this one:

http://citywire.co.uk/new-model-adviser/tax-evasion-costs-treasury-15-times-more-than-benefit-fraud/a378274

Everyone discussed in that page deserves to be locked up and fed cold carrots with razor blades.

But the avoidance dudes from the previous link, rather than always being rich corps and toffs, could just as easily be a small company or sole trader just getting value for money from their accountant.

vivatifosi

Generali wrote: »

It's harder to catch tax evaders and thus more expensive.

reduceditem wrote: »

...says who?

It really is though. Especially when companies offshore. I work in M&A research and getting to the ownership of an offshored company, especially one that's located in a tax haven is really difficult and is reliant on the goodwill of intermediaries, often in a chain of different tax havens. They need to want to be found or the chain of ownership is totally opaque. I don't see how you get round that unless all major governments work together to legislate against tax havens.

reduceditem

lewisa wrote: »

Everyone discussed in that page deserves to be locked up and fed cold carrots with razor blades.

But the avoidance dudes from the previous link, rather than always being rich corps and toffs, could just as easily be a small company or sole trader just getting value for money from their accountant.

Tax avoiders and benefits lead-swingers all represent the unfilled pothole in my street.

JasonLVC

Benefit fraud is 'easier' to track down becuase it involves an individual person, who has completed a form and made a false statement on it (ie, I am disabled, I am unemployed, etc).

To convict is easier becuase you have the deliberate act of making a false statement and the act of gaining financially as a result of that lie.

Tax evasion (ie, not avoidance/planning, but where one sets out to break the law to avoid paying tax) is equally as bad as benefit fraud but so much harder to prove. At a corporate level, who owns the business, where are the Directors based in the world, where is the business based, which jurisdiction takes precedent?

For individuals, we're all very keen to get a lower quote for cash (be it a building job or repair to a car) and yet that is evasion - both by the supplier and the customer, but you've saved £50 so who cares?

Bankers avoiding taxes on their bonuses is not fraud. MP's claiming expenses within the guidelines is not fraud (but morally dubious). Saying you've got 8 kids when you haven't IS fraud.

I hope Cameron balances this benefit crackdown with some major changes in direct tax legislation as Brown made it so complex and vague that it is so easy to avoid taxes legally as there are so many loopholes and ill-defined rules to play with.

reduceditem

OK......let's just stop right there with all the 'tax evasion is so much harder to detect' stuff:


The fight against tax evasion


Money Talk
By Ronnie Ludwig
Saffery Champness accountants




The tax man has been given a pat on the head in the National Audit Office's review of its efforts to tackle the so-called "hidden economy".
However, figures recently released by HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC), in its own performance report, show that the yield obtained from all of its counter evasion work has increased dramatically over the last fifteen years.
The money gleaned from reluctant taxpayers, both personal and corporate, has risen from £1.13bn in 1991-92 to a staggering £9.17bn in 2006-07.









Seems like something worth investing in, given the effectiveness of past measures.

StevieJ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Who doesn't committ tax evasion given the chance?

Pay in cash avoid VAT, undeclared income.

I assume that includes you then?

Thrugelmir

StevieJ wrote: »

I assume that includes you then?

Maybe. Though I've having trouble recalling any recent events.

Batchy

lewisa wrote: »

That isnt avoidance, its evasion. Im not sure if that kind of fraud is included in these numbers

The contractor settig up as a company (or possibly under an umbrella company) with a single client in order to pay corporation tax instead of income tax would be avoidance. Wouldnt it?

Tax evasion is illegal
Tax Avoidance is Grey area... I think thats the right way round
These two are managed by HMRC (inland rev and VAT)

Benefit Fraud is just that... Benefit Fraud, its managed by the people who pay it out. People make false claims, simple as that. The dont reinvestigate people, once their claim is sorted.

I know a person who had two social homes, between him and the mother of his children, they just got married so they had to give one up, but for years, they have rented it out to someone else! It was a brand new house and never even lived in!! He pocketed the money. So not only was they getting the rent paid by the government, they was pocketing the rent that they earnt off it cash. Quite simple where the Subaru Impreza come from, on top of the fact he was self employed and working the doors of nightclubs etc. Amazing how they managed to pay for elaborate wedding cash. NOT.

People play the Benefit System
People play the Tax system
Some people do it right and use an accountant to maximise tax loopholes, but these get shut down quickly, and the law changed to reflect it.

I don't know whose side im on, I think to be honest, im happy working earning my money, and paying my tax for an easy life. If I need more money I ask for a payrise. Simples, if I dont get what I need I look elsewhere, so far so good. My boss is fair, and he listens, and knows im not blagging it for the sake of it.

StevieJ

Batchy wrote: »

Tax evasion is illegal
Tax Avoidance is [STRIKE]Grey area.[/STRIKE] legal.. I think thats the right way round
These two are managed by HMRC (inland rev and VAT)

I have corrected that bit for you

mbga9pgf

reduceditem wrote: »

David Cameron will be spouting off today about the latest front he's opening up in the battle against benefit fraud.

"At a time when we're having to take such difficult decisions about how to cut back without damaging the things that matter the most, we should strain every sinew to cut error, waste and fraud in our welfare system.''

Benefit fraud costs us a hefty £1.5 billion a year.

Cameron has been relentless in his assault on the benefits system.......lot's of new policies, lot's of high profile speeches and announcements.....the message is clear for all.

But wait just a minute........what about tax fraud which costs us a massive £25 billion per year?

Why no war on tax fraud?

Where are the big announcements?

The media fanfare?

Surely we could recoup vast sums by concentrating on this fraud commited by rich people and corporations (run by rich people).

Don't misunderstand me, we should be doing both.........but why the huge focus on one fraud which costs £1.5 billion when another fraud is costing the tax-payer £25 billion?

I would prefer those that dont work a jot starve than those that do contribute to get away with underpaying tax. Being needy is not a desirable quality in my eyes; at least those underpaying tax are not a burden to the rest of the state like 3rd generation benefit claiming doleite scum are.

Indeed, if we had no needy people in this country, there wouldnt be any need for tax!