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Hula Groove Wedding Band - Threatened court action!

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Comments

  • OlliesDad
    OlliesDad Posts: 1,825 Forumite
    There is a fine line as to what is considered "reasonable", and it appears the Hula band are not leading by example. Perhaps they should have their T&Cs printed so they can hand them out to prospective clients for them to peruse over and make an informed decision as to whether or not they can/ want to commit to their seemingly ludicrous demands.

    I don't think people would want to knowingly/ deliberately take the mickey out of these event organisers as it is obvious that time, effort and cost implications are at stake.

    In this situation we are referring to an online booking so the above is not applicable.
    As for the responses you refer to on this forum, please do bear in mind we are all human and that these are merely expressions of opinion. How people interpret it is ultimately down to them, and they can draw their own conclusions.

    :A

    I am more than happy with the opinions stated, and i agree with the people who state the ts and cs are unenforcable. What i wasn't agreeing with was the unnecessary attempts by the PC vigilantes to influence the SEO in order to try and break this band.

    It seems you missed the point i was making (easy to do i suppose due to the size of the thread).
  • Takoda
    Takoda Posts: 1,846 Forumite
    Are we still searching for Hula Groove Band reviews? Hula Band Groove reviews? Groove Band Hula reviews?
    :rotfl:

    Seems to me that they can't be much of a band seeing as they are so dependent on the income from this single booking. Surely a great band would be able to fill in a free date quickly and easily.

    No one is trying to break the band - what a silly idea!

    But I remember the pamper party fiasco from a little while ago and although that was a totally different situation - companies (regardless of whether they are musicians or not) should be investigated when their terms and conditions are heavy handed and unfair such as they are in this case as described by the OP. Potential customers should be aware of this problem BEFORE they even email the band or telephone them.
  • Swan_2
    Swan_2 Posts: 7,060 Forumite
    Takoda wrote: »
    Are we still searching for Hula Groove Band reviews? Hula Band Groove reviews? Groove Band Hula reviews?
    :rotfl:

    Seems to me that they can't be much of a band seeing as they are so dependent on the income from this single booking. Surely a great band would be able to fill in a free date quickly and easily.

    No one is trying to break the band - what a silly idea!

    But I remember the pamper party fiasco from a little while ago and although that was a totally different situation - companies (regardless of whether they are musicians or not) should be investigated when their terms and conditions are heavy handed and unfair such as they are in this case as described by the OP. Potential customers should be aware of this problem BEFORE they even email the band or telephone them.
    exactly :T
  • Takoda
    Takoda Posts: 1,846 Forumite
    Thanks Swan.

    Just a little extra point - I just checked their availability for Saturdays in December 2010. Guess what - they are available for a wedding on ANY Saturday in December!

    Hence the desperation and insistance on their pound of flesh!
  • OlliesDad wrote: »
    In this situation we are referring to an online booking so the above is not applicable.

    I am more than happy with the opinions stated, and i agree with the people who state the ts and cs are unenforcable. What i wasn't agreeing with was the unnecessary attempts by the PC vigilantes to influence the SEO in order to try and break this band.

    It seems you missed the point i was making (easy to do i suppose due to the size of the thread).

    Oh yes me bad. I guess in theory it would be good if prospective clients were sent a copy of the T&Cs in advance before making any commitments so they have time to read and absorb it.

    Quite possibly! I just hope this comes to some steady resolution quickly before it turns ugly. ;)
    :mad: Hindsight is a wonderful thing...
    :j One of Mike's Mob! yea!!!
    F
    inally settled full balance of RBS personal loan ahead of schedule on 10th August 2010 :money:





    DEBT FREE AT LAST... BUT FOR HOW LONG?! :eek:
  • zenmaster
    zenmaster Posts: 3,151 Forumite
    And the comparison to Gary Cooper is rather unfair. He was a criminal who had no intention to fulfill contracts.
    As has the OP.

    In the interests of fairness I think the OP should publish their full contact details in this thread so that any wedding service providers they may approach have the opportunity to decide whether the happy couple are likely to change their mind after placing their order.
  • Takoda
    Takoda Posts: 1,846 Forumite
    Hmmm if you read carefully the OP says that his fiance was pressured to agree to the date by the band who claimed that they would get booked up. (a fact which at the moment does not seem to be true) Smacks of desperation to me.

    The band would've been better to have given them a while to think it over. That way the band would've still had the date free if another couple wanted it and the OP's fiance would probably not have bothered to book it at all.
  • [FONT=&quot]I am the manager of Hula Groove and have been reading this thread with interest.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]I would like to clear up some of the issues raised here and put our side of the story to provide a more balanced view.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Firstly, our T&C’s are displayed clearly on the website and made available for clients to download before making a booking. The client in question here read through the T&C’s and asked detailed questions about them before making their booking. There could be no question that they weren’t fully aware of our cancellation policy.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Good wedding bands – and I like to think we are one of them – are by their nature booked up a long time in advance of the actual wedding date. Most couples plan their music 1-2 years in advance. This booking was made for 28/12/2010, a date on which we are now extremely unlikely to get another booking with only 4 months remaining.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]The musicians that play in Hula Groove are professional, freelance session musicians. When we receive a booking from a client we immediately engage those musicians. If we cancel our contract with those musicians we are liable for their cancellation fees and lost profits.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]The client in question was well aware of our terms, presumably happy to agree to them at the time of booking but not happy to be subject to them when they later changed their mind.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]It may suit some people to view every business owner as a bully and every client as the victim. In reality, businesses are also clients. If a client breaks their contract, we lose money and so do our suppliers. If a client then refuses to pay their cancellation fee, everyone - except the client - loses out. Does that seem fair?[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Our T&Cs are industry standard and used by many professional function bands. No clients are bullied into making a booking. Any client that isn’t happy agreeing to our T&Cs is free to discuss any aspect of the T&Cs with us or book another band. We are always happy to work with clients and be flexible wherever possible.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]For some forum members to try to slur the name of our band without having full knowledge of the facts and without having even heard our side of the story is potentially damaging and grossly unfair. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Small businesses must have a right to recover their losses. When the parties cannot come to an agreement that sometimes unfortunately means having to go to court. We feel that the client in question is in breach of contract and is liable to pay our cancellation fee. This client disagrees. The place to resolve this matter is now in the County Court, not the Kangaroo court of the MSE forums.[/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]Danny
    Manager of Hula Groove[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
  • somethingcorporate
    somethingcorporate Posts: 9,449 Forumite
    edited 11 August 2010 at 8:36AM
    hulagroove wrote: »
    [FONT=&quot]I am the manager of Hula Groove and have been reading this thread with interest.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]I would like to clear up some of the issues raised here and put our side of the story to provide a more balanced view.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Firstly, our T&C’s are displayed clearly on the website and made available for clients to download before making a booking. The client in question here read through the T&C’s and asked detailed questions about them before making their booking. There could be no question that they weren’t fully aware of our cancellation policy.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Good wedding bands – and I like to think we are one of them – are by their nature booked up a long time in advance of the actual wedding date. Most couples plan their music 1-2 years in advance. This booking was made for 28/12/2010, a date on which we are now extremely unlikely to get another booking with only 4 months remaining.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]The musicians that play in Hula Groove are professional, freelance session musicians. When we receive a booking from a client we immediately engage those musicians. If we cancel our contract with those musicians we are liable for their cancellation fees and lost profits.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]The client in question was well aware of our terms, presumably happy to agree to them at the time of booking but not happy to be subject to them when they later changed their mind.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]It may suit some people to view every business owner as a bully and every client as the victim. In reality, businesses are also clients. If a client breaks their contract, we lose money and so do our suppliers. If a client then refuses to pay their cancellation fee, everyone - except the client - loses out. Does that seem fair?[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Our T&Cs are industry standard and used by many professional function bands. No clients are bullied into making a booking. Any client that isn’t happy agreeing to our T&Cs is free to discuss any aspect of the T&Cs with us or book another band. We are always happy to work with clients and be flexible wherever possible.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]For some forum members to try to slur the name of our band without having full knowledge of the facts and without having even heard our side of the story is potentially damaging and grossly unfair. [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Small businesses must have a right to recover their losses. When the parties cannot come to an agreement that sometimes unfortunately means having to go to court. We feel that the client in question is in breach of contract and is liable to pay our cancellation fee. This client disagrees. The place to resolve this matter is now in the County Court, not the Kangaroo court of the MSE forums.[/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]Danny
    Manager of Hula Groove[/FONT]

    Do let us know how it goes won't you? Since people on both sides of the argument have condemned your treatment of the OP.

    Just because you have a set of T&Cs that someone signs up to doesn't make them legal - luckily we have laws to protect us from corporate bullies that think they can write what they like into their contracts and then try and enforce them, especially when their behaviour is reprehensible.

    By the way, do you have MSEs permission to post as the company you work for?
    Thinking critically since 1996....
  • unholyangel
    unholyangel Posts: 16,866 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    hulagroove wrote: »
    [FONT=&quot]Small businesses must have a right to recover their losses. When the parties cannot come to an agreement that sometimes unfortunately means having to go to court. We feel that the client in question is in breach of contract and is liable to pay our cancellation fee. This client disagrees. The place to resolve this matter is now in the County Court, not the Kangaroo court of the MSE forums.[/FONT]

    While you are not a company such as argos, comet etc, you are still posting as a representitive - which is not allowed without MSE's approval. See below:
    If you're from a company, have seen a post you feel is defamatory or abusive and would like the right of reply please email the Forum Team at [EMAIL="abuse@moneysavingexpert.com"]abuse@moneysavingexpert.com[/EMAIL] to ask.
    A member of the MSE Team will carry out checks to confirm that you are authorised to represent the company in question.
    Provided you have authority to represent your company, you may either be asked to give a statement, which one of the MSE Team will post on your behalf in reply, or be given permission to post directly on the specific thread.


    On another note, while you do have a right to recover any losses from a breach of contract, the question still remains of whether a contract was formed without the deposit being paid and whether any loss was actually sustained due to (obviously in accordance with the OP) only 3 days passing between the provisional booking and cancellation. As another poster said, you also have a duty to mitigate your losses - which you do not seem to have done imo and also imo you seem to be making unreasonable demands with regards to payment.

    I dont think it was the intention of anyone to slate the band as an act - as a few posters have actually said they're quite good. More the way in which this matter has been dealt with.

    I fully understand the competition factor when it comes to musicians (a close friend happens to be part of one of the most well known tribute bands in the world) and that you do get people letting you down and have to adjust your T&C's accordingly.

    I would ask however that you do not take this thread out on the OP. It was my fault that your bands name was mentioned and the OP had no intentions of naming the band.

    If the OP has indeed told the truth and hasnt strayed from the facts, how about a little compassion. Consider the matter settled - thus proving all the posters (including myself) who said you were being unreasonable to be wrong - and change your website to reflect something along the lines of that until the deposit has been paid, their booking is not secure and will still be considered as available. Thereby ensuring that you can keep dates open for anyone also looking to book for the same day and that you wont ever have the trouble of this again?
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
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