Speed Camera switch off sees fewer accidents

Graham_Devon

FATBALLZ wrote: »

Does that include when you've been slowing down to stop, actually being stopped, and building up speed again at traffic lights etc? As if it does it probably doesn't tell you much about your propensity to speed.

Yes yes and yes. As that's the average journey speed. If you are stopped, if the engine is on, it will count as a journey.

Your speed is zero....but you have not reached your destination, so your still on your journey.

ZootHornRollo

i would concur with the idea that slowing your speed to 60 instead of 70 definitely improves the driving experience when on a fairly busy dual carriageway. It is more relaxed and i find that i am able to maintain a more regular speed rather than constantly speeding up and braking. I recently switched from a car to a van and have reduced my top speed to 60 (as per the law) on my commute. Keeping track of my road position versus vehicles in the 'fast' lane for the 18 miles i am on the dual carriageway i tend to get to the junction at the other end within 3 or 4 car lengths - sometimes in my favour.

However on free flowing dual carriageways and motorways the extra 10 mph can make a fair bit of difference over longer distances.

andykn

FATBALLZ wrote: »

The original post was talking about all accidents, not just road deaths. In fact while we're misusing statistics, the original post mentioned road deaths had halved in Swindon, so by your logic removing cameras had an extra 38% effectiveness in reducing road deaths...

I meant to talk about the injuries figure, the deaths figure in Swindon isn't statistically significant, unless you want to claim that road deaths in the UK will be halved by removing cameras. Injuries across the UK from road accidents reduced in 2009 from 2008.

Generali

This is what the head of Cambridgeshire police thinks:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/7933703/Hypocrisy-of-speeding-middle-class-motorists.html

Speeding motorists are hypocrites guilty of “middle class anti-social behaviour” who believe they can get away with breaking the law, one of the country’s longest serving chief constables has claimed.


...she claims that the biggest problem perceived by the public in her county is speeding drivers in rural areas and illegal parking by parents outside schools.

Speeding is middle-class anti-social behaviour,” she says. “People think we should be able to get away with it. They wouldn’t tolerate lawbreaking by somebody else but they do it themselves without thinking. “It all seems OK until something tragic happens, like their child dies because of a road traffic accident.”



Mrs Spence, 55, says that while anti-social behaviour is usually defined as rowdy youths or vandalism, “for too many it is the antics of drivers who refuse to accept that speed limit signs apply to them.



“Driving without care or consideration for other road users is probably among the worst kind of anti-social behaviour in its truest sense, because serious offenders can, and do, kill,” she says.

ash28

Graham_Devon wrote: »

They have right of way when on it yes. That is, afterall, why we stop to let them cross.

But to say they have right of way whenever they set foot towards or onto a crossing would be dangerous, and stupid. As it's basically saying they can just walk into the road whenever they like and its the drivers fault.

Right of way does NOT mean blindly walking in to the road.

Pedestrians have right of way on a zebra crossing as soon as they set foot on the crossing - in your opinion it may dangerous or stupid but it is the law. And you as a driver should be fully aware of what is going on around, in front of and behind you, if you aren't you shouldn't be on the road.

If you knock someone down on a zebra crossing it is a "strict liability" offence, which means that if the incident has occurred, you are guilty of the offence. For example, if you knock down a pedestrian who is on a pedestrian crossing, the offence is committed regardless of intent.

Some of the zebra crossings where we live are preceded by very nasty speed humps - unless you want the sump ripped off the bottom of your car you approach the crossing at about 10mph.

Pedestrian crossings:
195:
Zebra crossings. As you approach a zebra crossing
look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross

You MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing

Pedestrians also have right of way if they are in the process of crossing the mouth of a road that a driver is turning into.

And yes some people have no common sense when crossing the road - but if you do manage to hit someone on a crossing you will automatically be assumed to be guilty and will be prosecuted.

Graham_Devon

ash28 wrote: »

If you knock someone down on a zebra crossing it is a "strict liability" offence, which means that if the incident has occurred, you are guilty of the offence. For example, if you knock down a pedestrian who is on a pedestrian crossing, the offence is committed regardless of intent.

::sigh::

I know, I have already stated I know this. But you are completely ignoring the kids on scooters, or being chased out of school who simply run into the road.

It's alright suggesting I shouldn't be on the road, as a quick line, but what about pedestrian crossings coming out of alleyways where you simply cannot see the pedestrian? Should the pedestrians simply be able to continue walking out of the alleyway straight into the road without looking and continue on their merry way?! In one case I know, you'd have literally a second after seeing the pedestrian, to them being on the crossing, and for you to react and stop if this was the case....."but the highway code".....

It's downright dangerous for everyone concerned. Yet you stick to the highway code as if it explains every situation possible, close your mind to a simple couple of sentences and lay an insult on anyone thinking outside of the box and using common sense.

And yes some people have no common sense when crossing the road - but if you do manage to hit someone on a crossing you will automatically be assumed to be guilty and will be prosecuted.

Yup (not automatically though), but this is a seperate point. Something I have not argued with, but was my whole initial point....people should be educated into using these crossing instead of merely letting them do whatever they want, and then blaming the driver for everything.

nicko33

Generali wrote: »

This is what the head of Cambridgeshire police thinks:

Apart from the stupid attack on the "middle-class", she has a point.

ash28

Graham_Devon wrote: »

::sigh::

I know, I have already stated I know this. But you are completely ignoring the kids on scooters, or being chased out of school who simply run into the road.

It's alright suggesting I shouldn't be on the road, as a quick line, but what about pedestrian crossings coming out of alleyways where you simply cannot see the pedestrian? Should the pedestrians simply be able to continue walking out of the alleyway straight into the road without looking and continue on their merry way?! In one case I know, you'd have literally a second after seeing the pedestrian, to them being on the crossing, and for you to react and stop if this was the case....."but the highway code".....

It's downright dangerous for everyone concerned. Yet you stick to the highway code as if it explains every situation possible, close your mind to a simple couple of sentences and lay an insult on anyone thinking outside of the box and using common sense.


Yup, but this is a seperate point. Something I have not argued with, but was my whole initial point....people should be educated into using these crossing instead of merely letting them do whatever they want, and then blaming the driver for everything.

Personally I don't know any zebra crossings that start where alley ways are - where we live they are usually on fairly clear straight stretches of road with little in the way of visible obstruction. The fact that you are approaching a crossing means you should approach with caution - you know foot off the accelerator, hovering over the brake.....ready to stop in a hurry if you need to. If you have zebra crossings coming out of alley ways then all the more reason to approach with extreme caution. Parts of the high way code are law - not just advisory - section 195 I quoted about zebra crossings is the law. [Law ZPPPCRGD reg 25].

http://www.findleys.co.uk/highway_code/pedestrian_crossings.html



Drivers also need to be educated about approaching crossings - don't just blame pedestrians - that really is a closed mind.

You obviously went to a different driving school to the one I went to that advised when driving in built up areas or along parked cars or when overtaking buses, where people/children are likely to step/run out into traffic, that you exercised care and attention and were always on the look out for and trying to anticipate problems and to expect the unexpected.

Don't get me started on zebra crossings and drivers, a few years ago a very good friend was killed while walking across a zebra crossing, it was a Sunday morning and the driver was going too fast to stop and according to witnesses she didn't just step out onto the crossing. The driver got a prison sentence for causing death by dangerous driving - deservedly so IMHO, the sentence was just too short.

I'll end it here - people with your attitude to pedestrians really make me angry - you are sitting a protective box - they aren't.

Graham_Devon

ash28 wrote: »

Personally I don't know any zebra crossings that start where alley ways are - where we live they are usually on fairly clear straight stretches of road with little in the way of visible obstruction. The fact that you are approaching a crossing means you should approach with caution - you know foot off the accelerator, hovering over the brake.....ready to stop in a hurry if you need to. If you have zebra crossings coming out of alley ways then all the more reason to approach with extreme caution. Parts of the high way code are law - not just advisory - section 195 I quoted about zebra crossings is the law. [Law ZPPPCRGD reg 25].

http://www.findleys.co.uk/highway_code/pedestrian_crossings.html



Drivers also need to be educated about approaching crossings - don't just blame pedestrians - that really is a closed mind.

You obviously went to a different driving school to the one I went to that advised when driving in built up areas or along parked cars or when overtaking buses, where people/children are likely to step/run out into traffic, that you exercised care and attention and were always on the look out for and trying to anticipate problems and to expect the unexpected.

Don't get me started on zebra crossings and drivers, a few years ago a very good friend was killed while walking across a zebra crossing, it was a Sunday morning and the driver was going too fast to stop and according to witnesses she didn't just step out onto the crossing. The driver got a prison sentence for causing death by dangerous driving - deservedly so IMHO, the sentence was just too short.

I'll end it here - people with your attitude to pedestrians really make me angry - you are sitting a protective box - they aren't.

It's so difficult to think out of the box, isnt it. You are welcome to your opinion, but you seem fast set on it, so there is absolutely no point in me discussing anything any further. You have, somehow miraculously decided I overtake buses etc in built up areas?!

I hope you have never flashed your lights to give way to someone, or have never carried out a manouvre based on someone else flashing you.

Highway code see.

System

ash28 wrote: »

Don't get me started on zebra crossings and drivers, a few years ago a very good friend was killed while walking across a zebra crossing, it was a Sunday morning and the driver was going too fast to stop and according to witnesses she didn't just step out onto the crossing. The driver got a prison sentence for causing death by dangerous driving - deservedly so IMHO, the sentence was just too short.

Be careful of quoting the highaway code - it bites both ways

18: At all crossings. When using any type of crossing you should

• always check that the traffic has stopped before you start to cross or push a pram onto a crossing
• always cross between the studs or over the zebra markings. Do not cross at the side of the crossing or on the zig-zag lines, as it can be dangerous.

You MUST NOT loiter on zebra, pelican or puffin crossings.
Laws ZPPPCRGD reg 19 & RTRA sect 25(5)

Your good friend was partially to blame in the situation you quote.