Free solar panel discussion

free_juice?

suecoo66 wrote: »

How would I even know what pitch my roof is? Let alone the size of the roof? Is this something I would be able to find out if I look at my survey? As ISIS were happy to send me a contract I'm guessing my roof is ok, or do they just send out contracts to everyone who applies?
Really unsure what to do here.

I was lucky enough to have a spirit level with an electronic read out purchased from Lidl for next to nothing, an alternative is a plastic protractor held against a rafter or roof truss in the attic. You can get a rough idea of the roof size by looking at the floor area of your house, then halving it and adding about 15%.

The roof pitch is not very critical within reasonable limits despite Homesun's salesman telling me that a 30 degree roof was sub-optimal and it ruled me out of both the free and £500 offers. Their website says otherwise so why I was rejected with a precisely due South facing roof and no shade I have no idea. However I am glad I was as my 24 day old system is currently making a dead loss from every point of view, adding £5 a month to it would be insult to injury.

However the sun came out for four hours today, first time since the system was installed, so using Homesun's Isle of Wight style arithmetic it looks like I am on course to generate close to 5,000kWh this year. That will cover the £100 deposit Homesun ran off with rather nicely.

NB. Roof size calculation assumes a rectangular house with usual shaped roof. ie. no fancy embellishments.

suecoo66

mark333333 wrote: »

Hi, i had a 4 kwh system fitted by a local company called azure eco here in sheffeild a week ago. I have generated 75 kwh in 0ne week which is 75x41.3 =£30.95 + 75divided by 2x .03p= £1.12 =£32.07 tax free refund for that week and i get to use the 75 kwh on top. Personally i feel if you can raise the money for the total cost of the system it makes more sence than having the free solar company fit the system and take the profit.

What was your outlay for the system?

ilovegreen_2

Z.... I don't entirely agree with what you are saying but don't you think there is a possibility that their client has misread the data??? Krish has given you the opportunity to speak with their customers directly who have systems installed by them and have been through their full process of getting them installed..why don't you take up the offer and speak to the consumer who already has kits installed rather than bickering who's wrong and whose correct...... and let us know the outcome? (at the end of the day their customers supplied the data and it is their data that you are not agreeing with)

Cardew .....Your right however this is a new industry and everyone here is just unsure what to do or to be more specific "to find a loop hole to get stuff for free". There are only a set number of active users on this thread and the same users keep asking the same questions over and over again...I wouldn't be surprised if homesun ignored this site in the near future. (Just a thought)

Are other companies providing detailed data on this forum? I don't think so. One post he has made which we don't agree too does not mean one can be aggressive in their posts.......that's why I say "Give him a break" and call one of their customers!!

P.S. I personally feel if he does not want to publish actual data from the FIT's they generate then I think it's his every right not to disclose that info. Just my opinion. (If it was my company I wouldn't.... especially if I had heaps of happy customers already using my products with no issues, i guess thats what all the other solar companies are doing as they just don't have time to deal with us online forum users - again that's just my opinion)

Freejuice -> Your mistaken, it's not homesun arithmetic it's one of thier customers.

Cardew

ilovegreen wrote: »

Z.... I don't entirely agree with what you are saying but don't you think there is a possibility that their client has misread the data??? Krish has given you the opportunity to speak with their customers directly who have systems installed by them and have been through their full process of getting them installed..why don't you take up the offer and speak to the consumer who already has kits installed rather than bickering who's wrong and whose correct...... and let us know the outcome? (at the end of the day their customers supplied the data and it is their data that you are not agreeing with)

Cardew .....Your right however this is a new industry and everyone here is just unsure what to do or to be more specific "to find a loop hole to get stuff for free". There are only a set number of active users on this thread and the same users keep asking the same questions over and over again...I wouldn't be surprised if homesun ignored this site in the near future. (Just a thought)

Are other companies providing detailed data on this forum? I don't think so. One post he has made which we don't agree too does not mean one can be aggressive in their posts.......that's why I say "Give him a break" and call one of their customers!!

P.S. I personally feel if he does not want to publish actual data from the FIT's they generate then I think it's his every right not to disclose that info. Just my opinion. (If it was my company I wouldn't.... especially if I had heaps of happy customers already using my products with no issues, i guess thats what all the other solar companies are doing as they just don't have time to deal with us online forum users - again that's just my opinion)

Freejuice -> Your mistaken, it's not homesun arithmetic it's one of thier customers.

Firstly your last point on the arithmetic. The customer apparently came up with the figure of £4.35. However Krish's post doesn't say the customer multiplied that figure by 52!!!

If you look at the link, it states that "Alan is keeping a close watch of his meter readings" well how has he come up with a figure of £4.35 saving?

I will certainly ask 'Alan' if Krish sends me his phone number.

A Shade Greener(ASG) - the first Rent a Roof organization - have been remarkably up front with the information they have posted in the 'green' forum of MSE.

They fit 3.3kWp systems(and now a smaller system) and charge nothing. They expect around 2,800kWh pa from their 3.3kWp systems and did not demur at the suggestion that £100 savings would be a ballpark figure for the customers.

The output from all systems can be pretty accurately estimated, and all of the reports coming in indicate that the predicted and actual generated outputs are remarkable close. That is also from some people on MSE who have had their systems 3 years or so.

Krish knows both the predicted and actual output for his systems - so why not tell us?

As I said above his 2.4kWp system is unlikely to produce 2,000kWh pa - why doesn't he challenge me if I am wrong?

free_juice?

ilovegreen wrote: »

P.S. I personally feel if he does not want to publish actual data from the FIT's they generate then I think it's his every right not to disclose that info. Just my opinion. (If it was my company I wouldn't.... especially if I had heaps of happy customers already using my products with no issues, i guess thats what all the other solar companies are doing as they just don't have time to deal with us online forum users - again that's just my opinion)

Freejuice -> You're mistaken, it's not homesun arithmetic it's one of their customers.

I'm using the same arithmetic that Homesun are encouraging me to use. I don't know their customer, all I have to go on is what Homesun posted here. How can I be mistaken?

I have published what I get from my 3.3kW system (link is in post 1809) and I also have a complete log of the output power at 15 minute intervals since installation. The system is exactly the same size as the one Homesun proposed but then walked away from so I suspect my figures would be pretty much the same as those Homesun collect but are reticent about.

As I have said before, it's early days and it's been a foul January in Kent but even 100% power usage wouldn't cover Homesun's £5 charge.

zeupater

ilovegreen wrote: »

Z.... I don't entirely agree with what you are saying but don't you think there is a possibility that their client has misread the data??? Krish has given you the opportunity to speak with their customers directly who have systems installed by them and have been through their full process of getting them installed..why don't you take up the offer and speak to the consumer who already has kits installed rather than bickering who's wrong and whose correct...... and let us know the outcome? (at the end of the day their customers supplied the data and it is their data that you are not agreeing with)

Cardew .....Your right however this is a new industry and everyone here is just unsure what to do or to be more specific "to find a loop hole to get stuff for free". There are only a set number of active users on this thread and the same users keep asking the same questions over and over again...I wouldn't be surprised if homesun ignored this site in the near future. (Just a thought)

Are other companies providing detailed data on this forum? I don't think so. One post he has made which we don't agree too does not mean one can be aggressive in their posts.......that's why I say "Give him a break" and call one of their customers!!

P.S. I personally feel if he does not want to publish actual data from the FIT's they generate then I think it's his every right not to disclose that info. Just my opinion. (If it was my company I wouldn't.... especially if I had heaps of happy customers already using my products with no issues, i guess thats what all the other solar companies are doing as they just don't have time to deal with us online forum users - again that's just my opinion)

Freejuice -> Your mistaken, it's not homesun arithmetic it's one of thier customers.

Hi

I don't know what else I can say .... I have solar pv .... I measure the performance .... I know what it's capable of .... I know what it's not capable of .... the system is larger than 3.51kWp .... I cannot produce anywhere near what Krish has posted their customer would expect to produce over a year on a 3.51kWp system .... my system performs in line with SMA's model .... my system performs in line with the PVGIS data model .... my system performs in line with almost everything except what a number of quotations claimed .... I cannot see what advantage talking to a tame customer in order to verify what I know to be impossible would provide ...

As Cardew has mentioned, Homesun will know what the system has generated in order to claim the FiT payment and as you correctly mention, if it was your company you wouldn't want to publish that kind of data .... however, according to the REAL code the 'rent-a-roof' operators should follow the following guidelines ..... http://www.realassurance.org.uk/pdf/information-regarding-free-solar-pv-systems.pdf .... you'll note that the first requirement on the list is to provide details of 'the full value of the expected Feed-in Tariff income over 25 years' to the customer, and that's effectively only the basis of what has been requested, so it's not a trade secret ..... mind you, perhaps Homesun, who also sell their product, don't conform to the requirements laid out in the REAL codes, which opens up a further set of questions.

Also, as you correctly mention, the figures have not been collected by Homesun, but by one of their customers, for which they would have no responsibility ..... however, in reproducing the data as a direct result of a request for that information they are effectively endorsing it as being correct. I am sure that a company which has built a multi-million pound business case upon the ability of their capital outlay to perform within very tight tolerances will know very well what their systems are capable of, or more appropriately, what they're not capable of ....

Regards
Z

Gizmosmum_2

I feel a bit sorry for "Alan" I suspect he's done what he's done out of good faith and there's a little exploitation of this goodwill from Homesun. I'm not sure what benefit the phone calls to this poor soul would do.

Personally I don't believe that savings of anything like this will be achieved but I hate to see such a personal vendetta launched on someone who is trying his best (if a little misguided) to help out.

Maybe it's time you took your gripes to REAL and let them settle the issue as they were intended. It'll be interesting to see if they actually have any teeth!

zeupater

Gizmosmum wrote: »

I feel a bit sorry for "Alan" I suspect he's done what he's done out of good faith and there's a little exploitation of this goodwill from Homesun. I'm not sure what benefit the phone calls to this poor soul would do.

Personally I don't believe that savings of anything like this will be achieved but I hate to see such a personal vendetta launched on someone who is trying his best (if a little misguided) to help out.

Maybe it's time you took your gripes to REAL and let them settle the issue as they were intended. It'll be interesting to see if they actually have any teeth!

Hi Gizmosmum

I totally agree .... that's probably the main reason why I wouldn't take up this particular offer ....

Z

Cardew

Gizmosmum wrote: »

I feel a bit sorry for "Alan" I suspect he's done what he's done out of good faith and there's a little exploitation of this goodwill from Homesun. I'm not sure what benefit the phone calls to this poor soul would do.

Personally I don't believe that savings of anything like this will be achieved but I hate to see such a personal vendetta launched on someone who is trying his best (if a little misguided) to help out.

Maybe it's time you took your gripes to REAL and let them settle the issue as they were intended. It'll be interesting to see if they actually have any teeth!

I agree absolutely about 'Alan' probably acting in good faith and have no issue with him.

My gripe, and that of the others, is that Krish sees fit to post such misinformation.

It is patently obvious to anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of PV generation that the savings on the £500/£5 monthly Homesun system will be minimal at best, and sometimes even show a loss.

Yet we have a Homesun salesman allowed to post on MSE, with all the free publicity and air of respectability that brings, to answer queries - it says so in his signature block.

Yet when asked simple questions he obfuscates and posts misleading information - with the standard disclaimer that it is what a customer reported.

The purpose of MSE is to save consumers money, not swell the profits of firms.

JasonLo

HomeSun_company_representative wrote: »

Hi Cardew,

Savings is important to us as it would be with yourself. Overall, we want everyone to benefit and have already had a handful of enthusiastic customers monitoring their meters since installation as well as the weather to calculate savings on a daily and seasonal basis.

I have contacted a Mr Alan Cotton on the Isle of Wight who received his solar install from us at the end of October. He has no objection with sharing his recordings on the MSE site.

We have installed a 3.52 system (16 panels) and In the second week he tracked £4.35 savings on electricity whilst 5 out 7 days were partial or full sun. Approximate savings in Autumn: £4.35 x 52 = £226.20 He is certainly happy with his savings thus far and can see even more in future months.


Hope this helps.

Krish

I'm new to this forum but could not help noticing the heated debate around the claimed savings in this post from an (apparent) HomeSun employee.

Calculating electricity savings should be straightforward enough and does not need to rely on extrapolating one weeks data. For a 3.5 kWp system in the Isle of Wight (which is one of the best places in the UK for solar PV generation), assuming a south facing, unshaded location and a pitch of about 35 degrees, the annual output would be around 3290 kWh. Don't take my word for this but look it up on the PVGIS website which is well respected in the industry.

Based on this, HomeSun, as owners of the system will receive:

(3290 x 41.3p) + (1645 x 3p) = 1358.77 + 49.35 = £1408 p.a

This assumes the system is a retrofit and that 50% of the power is exported to the grid.

For the Homeowner the saving depends on their usage pattern and current electricity tariff but assuming they use 50% of the generated power and currently pay 12p per KWh, their annual saving is £163. Obviously if they are able to use all the electricity as it is produced, this will double to £326.

The £226 figure is not wildly innacurate and the system might outperform the PVGIS data SLIGHTLY but not by more than about 10% in my view. The method of arriving at the number in the post (£4.35 x 52) is nonsense.

On the wider issue of whether the Free Solar scheme is good or bad, it is a matter of circumstances. The 3.5 kWp system in the Isle of Wight would have cost about £14k (+/- £1-2k) had the homeowner purchased it himself (a lot less for HomeSun). The £1408 + £163 would represent a return of 11% which would be tax free and index linked to the RPI. This is generally the best option if you have the money. If you don't have the money but can borrow it, this is you next best option.

However, if you don't have the capital nor the ability or inclination to borrow it, the free system gives you a reduction in your electricity bills at no cost to yourself so for some it is worth doing. As for paying Homesun to install a sub-optimal system, I would suggest this is not worth considering although I've not studied the terms!