Free solar panel discussion

espresso

free juice?

Welcome to the forum, a useful website. I liked your report about Homesun and "the the almost mythical ‘ideal roof", they obviously only use this forum to advertise their wares to the gullible on here!

:mad:

Cardew

I would echo the comments above from espresso; particularly your impression of HomeSun. It seems pretty clear that they will charge what the market will bear, and if they can get away with charging £500 and £5 a month they will.

The problem is they know they are dealing with people who in the main are clueless about PV generation and believe the implied savings of £hundreds a year are realistic.

I wonder how many people read the brochure in depth and find the one example they give is of someone who saved £52 off her electricity bill in the period February to August and these were better than expected results. see post#1797

Krish the Homesun rep posts on here quite a bit and his signature states

I am the official company representative of HomeSun. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues.

Well I have a query - can you give a estimate of how much you expect your customers to save per year with a 2.4kWp or 2.6kWp system - before paying the £500 and £5 a month.

We appreciate that you can't be exact, but a minimum and maximum figure would suffice e.g between £50 and £100 a year.

free_juice?

Gizmosmum wrote: »

Looks good freejuice is it rude to ask how much

Grab the Excel sheet at Today's output>History and look at the formula for cell H3. You should be able to see for yourself. X/365 at 3% interest on my savings account less the tax.

Neither cheapest nor dearest but they did a good job and I can call any time for a friendly chat.

Cardew

free_juice? wrote: »

Grab the Excel sheet at Today's output>History and look at the formula for cell H3. You should be able to see for yourself. X/365 at 3% interest on my savings account less the tax.

Neither cheapest nor dearest but they did a good job and I can call any time for a friendly chat.

By my calculations you paid £12,100 for your system.

Whilst the most important info will be your comprehensive details of the output, may I play the 'Devil's advocate' and comment/question on your spreadsheet.

It appears you are going to compare your lost interest against income from the panels.

As I see it, for your income you are taking the 41.3p FIT and adding the 3p/kWh export income on 50% of your generated output. e.g on 19/01/11 you generated 7.2kWh and had income of £3.08.

However you don't appear to have given any value for the electricity used in the house in your income column. That could be, say, 3kWh used @ 9.6p/kWh and another 28.8p income?

As your £12,100 is tied for a long term, isn't 3% less tax(2.4%) a bit stingy? You can get 4.75% in Nationwide for a long term savings account.

Do you intend to have a column(notional or not) investing your income?

Also compounding the interest for lost savings and income?

Cardew

This BBC Money Box is of huge importance to those contemplating ‘rent a roof’ schemes; and even those who bought their systems.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00y1vxr/Money_Box_29_01_2011/

Listen to introduction and again at 6mins 30 seconds.

Perhaps the most important is that many Banks and building societies will not lend/mortgage to houses with leased roofs. (I wonder if there is to be a health warning on Rent a roof brochures)

The BBC has also learnt that the Government is concerned at private companies(the rent a roof companies) are creaming off the subsidies meant for individuals. As mentioned many times on MSE, this is the ‘loophole’ that they are exploiting.

Apparently PV systems will cost £8.6Billion in subsidies and save £420 million; which all consumers – even those in flats etc on low income, pay.

The Minister gave an assurance that the Government would honour existing PV subsidies, but couldn’t speak for future Governments.

free_juice?

Cardew wrote: »

By my calculations you paid £12,100 for your system.

£12,022 actually.

True I am not taking account of the electricity bill savings but I know of no way to input an accurate figure and formula into the spreadsheet.

I raided my instantly accessible savings to pay for the installation which were getting 3%. Logically I should use a higher figure as I could have switched the money across to one of my longer term accounts instead of spending it. But when I knocked up the spreadsheet I didn't have public criticism in mind, just a simple guide to whether it was money totally down the drain or not. If the weather doesn't improve it will be. :mad:

suecoo66

kenny62 wrote: »

what about the roof if its damadged or needs replacing who foots that bill ? or you get a leak on roof slates or tiles ?
who foots the bill ?

I just got a contract sent to me by Isis, one of the clauses states that if I need to get my roof repaired I have to pay for the panels to be removed and also compensate the company for the loss of FIT.
Don't like the idea of this.
I was also surprised that the company want me to sign a lease without coming to the property. I've not had any discussions with the company at all yet they want me to sign.
States that if my property isn't suitable after survey I won't have to pay any money but I'm very wary.

suecoo66

What happens if my roof needs repairing during the 25yrs?
Do I have to pay for removal and if so how much is this likely to cost?
Do I have to compensate you for the loss of FIT?
Do you insure the panels and my roof etc against any damage caused by the panels?

suecoo66

BrummyGit wrote: »

There seems to be much negativity about rent-a-roof schemes on here, however I am pleased to say that I've signed contracts with HomeSun today for the installation of a 3.52KWp system on my home. I am lucky that my roof is big enough to take the full capacity system but slightly off the ideal by 15 degrees orientation and my pitch is only 20 degrees - looking at various information sources this will degrade my output slightly meaning that my home does not meet the criteria for a totally free installation and I will be making a one-off payment.


I would like to write down my own reasoning for going ahead in the hope that it offers some balance on the forum......

• I do not have the spare money to purchase my own system available for 10 years or more until I see a return on my investment.
• I do not want to take the risk that in the next 25 years a radical change of political policy might revoke the current FITs
• I do not want to take the risk that over 25 years a relatively new technology will not fail in some way and cost me more than anticipated
• HomeSun is providing the capital outlay for a system installation on my home - and obviously expects a return on that money. I have a minor financial investment. With a family of 5, I might have spent it on a social event or weekend away - I consider it spent and forgotten.
• I am happy that the aesthetics of the installation will not be detrimental to my home due to not being overlooked to the south, and where all items will be installed. So no impact there
• I have no expectation of needing my roof for any other reason
• HomeSun will monitor the system and maintain it in peak working efficiency - I have no costs associated with any of this. So in 25 years time I know I will still have a system generating nearly the same amount of power as new without any maintenance cost.
• In the next 25 years I expect energy efficiency changes to mean my household demand reduces
• In the next 25 years I expect energy costs to increase
• In the next 25 years I expect Solar PV to improve, but I also expect the FITs to reduce, so this could be a small window of opportunity for a "free" system
• I have no plans to move, but believe that at the moment the system would make my home easier to sell. In any case I can buy it outright should it be a sticking point.

As the technology and industry develops I will be looking at investing my money into equipment like the EMMA which would divert unused generation capacity into heating my water. That would help reduce my gas bill too - mainly in summer, but that's when my central heating isn't required anyway. Currently EMMA is too expensive :sad:

So for negligible outlay I get 25 years of whatever electricity I can use from the output of my system with someone else taking the vast majority of risk. I'll be investing my efforts and money in making the most of that free energy.

I have no big expectations, but the energy savings trust calculator estimates that in my circumstances I could save up to around £198 per year - and that's in 2011, how about in 2031?

Maybe I'll save £10 per month initially, but if nothing else I'll enjoy the experimenting.

What pitch do you have to have to qualify for the 'free' panels?
Are there any clauses in your contract about what happens if you need to remove the panels to get your roof repaired?

BrummyGit

I've also got an ISIS contract filed somewhere - I wasn't about to sign anything before meeting someone in person. That just smacked of totally unprofessional business practices.

If my roof needs repair in an area occupied by the panels (which in my case I don't expect any serious problems in that time) I have to pay for the reasonable costs of panel removal and replacement, plus the cost of any non-reusable parts.

In addition if the system is out of service for more than 3 weeks at a time (max 6 weeks in any 12 month period) I have to pay the FITs to HomeSun for the duration of the removal LESS 2 weeks. The maximum compensation I might have to pay is limited to 4 weeks in any 12 months period.

I don't think that is too unreasonable.