'Policing benefit bashing in the forum: valid debate or hate crime?' blog discussion

michaels

This website is not a public park, it is Martin's website. I would not come in to your home and tell you that you must do things differently; similarly I am not going to tell Martin he must run his website differently. If you think there is scope to provide a better website then set one up.

bat-out-of-hell wrote: »

But this is not a forum on football or politics, while a broad church, it hosts boards of the most desperate of society, and the most vulnerable, a fact Martin acknowledges, but replies,’ well they should not post here'
For the same reason you give.

Then in the next breath boasting it’s the 10th biggest uk forum, which is the problem, it can not be ‘policed’ but is a magnet to those that need it, but are not strong enough to use it safely.

Yet do the vulnerable and desperate head that warning, no, the bit that amazes me is that Martin expects them too.

This place has the best of humanity, and the worst, one attracts the needy while the other destroys, I am just amazed Martin has got away with it as long as he has, without something really bad happening, yet what is he supposed to do? Pull the plug? That just leaves no where to turn.

I have had this discussion with Martin, many times, and I accept the legal issues, but it’s the attitude of the likes of you that it is just an internet forum, it happens, so that ok that’s the problem!

John_Pierpoint

It is a funny thing about the English in particular.
We love cutting people down to size.
Cutting remarks and evil jokes at someone else's expense.
I vividly remember and ageing colleague, who was beginning to lose the plot, being described by another worker half his age as a:
"Daft cloth eared old git" - which even I thought was a little ageist.
But the "old git" came back grinning and telling a joke against himself; because he realised he was still "one of the boys".
Being ignored and ostracised is much worse.

If some poster upsets you and is being unreasonable; go along with them and the rest of the forum will soon realise that they are qualifying themselves for the "prize muppet" award.

A lot of people, especially foreigners and those who have not had to get along with all sorts (been to prison/forces/construction camp/walked the Great Wall of China for charity/manned a soup kitchen/organised the local "am dram" play..............?) can get very indignant about such behavior.

Karmacat

Martin, I'm very sorry to hear that staff at Moneysaving Towers have been subjected to abuse - I didn't know about any of this, because I tend to stick to dfw, and a bit of os.... I like what you've written in the article about policy, and about censorship. MSE is a lifesaver - if anyone doubts that, there have been suicides and killings enough in the last year or so. I don't know what to suggest about the windup merchants, I really don't, tho I do know that in principle, once you start to censor, you need to do more and more and more, its a slippery slope that goes down a long way.

I think MSE has the balance roughly right on these things - if there are trolls and windup merchants around, I back out, I have to say, I'm not interested in rising to their bait. And benefits is one of those extremely emotive topics where everything is highly charged already.

Not sure what point I'm making, tbh! Just a message of support, really.

RuthnJasper

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

It is a funny thing about the English in particular.
We love cutting people down to size.
Cutting remarks and evil jokes at someone else's expense.
I vividly remember and ageing colleague, who was beginning to lose the plot, being described by another worker half his age as a:
"Daft cloth eared old git" - which even I thought was a little ageist.
But the "old git" came back grinning and telling a joke against himself; because he realised he was still "one of the boys".
Being ignored and ostracised is much worse.

If some poster upsets you and is being unreasonable; go along with them and the rest of the forum will soon realise that they are qualifying themselves for the "prize muppet" award.

A lot of people, especially foreigners and those who have not had to get along with all sorts (been to prison/forces/construction camp/walked the Great Wall of China for charity/manned a soup kitchen/organised the local "am dram" play..............?) can get very indignant about such behavior.

Wasn't it Oscar Wilde who said "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about."...? :cool:

RuthnJasper

Saucepot wrote: »

II think it is an insult to the millions working hard on modest incomes shuffling a third of their take home (NI & Income Tax) to the government. I understand exactly how and why it infuriates people. This is not a “hate crime”. No comparison can be made with racism, sexism or homophobia. Comparisons to the treatment of Jews in the third Reich are an insult to those who suffered. There is no conspiracy of propaganda in the media to demonise welfare claimants, only stories that inform us just how broken and perverse the welfare state had become.

I am saddened if abuse has been occurring on forums designed to share knowledge and ask or offer advice. I would be saddened further if DT was stifled by a few abuse button happy oddballs accusing anybody they disagreed with of being Nazi’s

Thank you for your post Saucepot. I am so, so sorry if people thought I was accusing anyone providing (non-abusive) debate - even argumentative debate, as long as it isn't offensive, - on this forum of being Nazis or that I was comparing people with financial problems (which include myself), however brought-about, to victims of genocide. That was not my intention.

What I meant was in reference to the title of the thread - the "valid debate or hate crime" bit. I guess I was perhaps a bit sensitive there, but (for various reasons) I find that 'hate crime' is such a strong choice of wording to use.

Please accept my genuine and sincere apologies if anyone thought I was meaning such a slight against individual groups of people.

Personally I feel that these forums and the majority of the active members are an incredibly precious resource, and healthy rational debate should always be encouraged.

Sorry again.

R x

LoopyPrune

I have nothing against people asking for advice on claiming any benefit that they are entitled to.

I do have something against anybody asking advice on claiming a benefit that they aren't entitled to.

Most people are honest hardworking human beings (apart from my neighbour, her lay about partner and their 7 kids who claim for the most outrageous things cause they know the system better then the woman behind the DHSS counter) who have maybe hit a hard time and just need that helping hand.

stormclouds

Edinburghlass wrote: »

You'll find if you press the abuse button now, you can do it on my post if you like, that it will open up a pre-populated form for reporting abuse.

Nope. It attempted to open Outlook Express which I don't use.

BLT_2

DX2 wrote: »

I think MSE should shut it's doors for a couple of days, and some posters will have the opportunity to reflect on what it is that MSE gives them.

I can't say it would affect me that much if it closed for a couple of years to be honest.

I joined this board and initially found it useful, however I now realise it has become repetitive, is frequented by a large percentage of individuals whose only aim in life is either to avoid repaying debts they have accrued, by any means, or those who want advice on how best to fleece the benefits system.

The disabled thread is appalling, I have never seen so many weak justifications for dipping into the public purse. Personally I would like to shake some of them and tell them to stop whining and get on with it. There are people with no legs doing wheelchair marathons for charity, struggling around offices on crutches to earn a loaf of bread, conversely on MSE we have professional internet addicts who spend their whole day posting threads about how hard done to they are how and how they should be given more money because they are feeling depressed. Tough, get over it.

I tire of the endless threads from individuals who borrowed thousands of pounds and now want to know whether they have to repay it because they are sure they didn't sign on the correct line, and those who whine on about how they managed to hide from their debts for 5 years but now people want them to pay back the money the borrowed.

There are some excellent posters on here, but conversely there are a huge amount of individuals who need to examine their morals and start taking responsibility for their own actions. It's not always someone elses fault.

If I hear one more line about the 'evil bank who forced me to loan their money' I may just vomit.

These boards will always engender confrontation, people live their lives by different mores, and in such a situation arguments will ensue as oft it is not possible to see the others viewpoint.

Finally all should remember, its a screen, if you don't like the words on it, turn off the computer and do something else. I see many complaints about CCTV, big brother and censorship, the same people who complain about these aspects of society are now proposing censorship on the the website.

JDPower

BLT wrote: »

I can't say it would affect me that much if it closed for a couple of years to be honest.

In your own words:

BLT wrote: »

its a screen, if you don't like the words on it, turn off the computer and do something else.

BLT_2

JDPower wrote: »

In your own words:

Clearly I missed your point here :-) I frequent the board because it is there, if it wasn't I would move on and look at other boards, It wouldn't leave a hole in my life by any stretch of the imagination. It is something to peruse in between other activities.

When I'm bored with it I turn off the screen and do something else