StayWarm Special Briefing 2006/7 Discussion Area

BernardM

Cardew wrote:

It is also an undeniable fact that many pensioners treat the £250 as a bonus income and do not use it to provide extra heat.


Cardew, poor pensioners should not be singled out for criticism. They are victims of successive governments' failure to tackle both heating efficiency and pensioner poverty.

KimYeovil

BernardM,

Again, pensioners are not poor. They have not been ignored. If you are 60 years or older, you are entitled to £500 per month if single, £750 per month if a couple. And that's after housing is paid for. Plus the winter bonus at 65.

You repeatedly refuse to explain why it is not possible to live on £500. The fact that they squander the winter fuel payment is irrelevant. I do not know the current cost of the StayWarm tariffs but presume they are still between £60 and £150. How much more than £600 per month do you think a couple requires to avoid 'poverty'?

There is no problem with the income of pensioners.

It is not the responsibility of government to tackle heating efficiency.

There is a problem with their homes and savings and nursing or care costs. Stop wasting time with a non-existent problem and concentrate your campaigning on troubles that are real.

BernardM

If excess winter deaths is a non-problem for you, then you clearly are heartless and out of touch with reality.

http://www.npcuk.org/briefings/Myths.pdf

KimYeovil

Again you refuse to explain what any of this has to do with 'winter deaths'. Pensioners have more than enough money to eat and heat themselves. If you're upset about the way pensions and national insurance and everything is distributed then bully for you - campaign for that on a pensions forum or a tax forum or wherever. It has nothing to do with StayWarm or winter heating.

It is you who is out of touch with reality if you think £750 per month is not more than enough to heat a two bedroom home and do all your food shopping at Marks & Spencer.

In what way will squandering money through giving able-bodied couples more than £750 per month help with the real financial difficulties some of the old face?

Your complaint has nothing to do with the affordability of heating or the StayWarm tariff.

BernardM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/06/27/do2701.xml

KimYeovil

Again, what has this to do with the topic of this thread? Again, you refuse to explain what this has to do with the cost of heating or StayWarm tariff or winter deaths. Do you have any evidence that pensioners do not have enough money to feed and heat themselves?

Take your complaints to a pensions and national insurance forum.

BernardM

KimYeovil wrote: »

BernardM,

Again, pensioners are not poor. They have not been ignored. If you are 60 years or older, you are entitled to £500 per month if single, £750 per month if a couple. And that's after housing is paid for. Plus the winter bonus at 65.

You repeatedly refuse to explain why it is not possible to live on £500. The fact that they squander the winter fuel payment is irrelevant. I do not know the current cost of the StayWarm tariffs but presume they are still between £60 and £150. How much more than £600 per month do you think a couple requires to avoid 'poverty'?

There is no problem with the income of pensioners.

It is not the responsibility of government to tackle heating efficiency.

There is a problem with their homes and savings and nursing or care costs. Stop wasting time with a non-existent problem and concentrate your campaigning on troubles that are real.

Quite alright for you to post this.

Some more articles that you must have missed. It is a scandal and you should be ashamed to deny it.

Failed policy blamed for winter deaths
(Friday 28 October 2005)
HEALTH campaigners blamed failed government policy yesterday for "scandalous" figures showing a massive rise in winter deaths in England and Wales.

The Office for National Statistics estimates showed that, between December 2004 and March 2005, there were about 31,600 more deaths than the average number during the non-winter period, the highest in five years.

In the previous four years, there have been fewer than 30,000 excess deaths each winter.

Health Minister Lord Warner tried to play down the massive rise, but angry campaigners blamed government policies for the figures, which they called "a scar on society that should shame us all."

Help the Aged warned that 24,700 of last year's 31,600 excess winter deaths were of those aged 75 or over - a 34 per cent increase in just 12 months.

Spokesman Mervyn Kohler urged the government to scrap the means test on the flagship Warm Front home energy efficiency scheme and increase investment.

"It's clear from these figures that government policy is failing. Rising fuel costs coupled with poor housing conditions are consigning thousands of vulnerable older people to an unnecessary and cruel death," he said.

Charity group Winter National Energy Action urged ministers to tackle fuel poverty or expect "many more deaths" this winter.

BernardM

Cardew wrote: »

BernardM

It is without dispute that the huge increases in energy prices will cause hardship and bring many more people - from all sections of society -into the classification of 'fuel poverty'.

Instead of posting quote after meaningless quote about child poverty groups, OAPs etc half a million dying because they can't heat their houses and other rubbish

Rubbish and meaningless, Cardew. Scotland has seen its death rate fall to a record low after implementing a free central heating programme. In England and Wales it has increased.
What I wrote in post 68 on the previous page has come true.

OAPs hit out as winter deaths soar
(Thursday 27 November 2008)
PENSIONERS condemned the government on Thursday for failing to prevent the "continuing disgrace" of tens of thousands of extra winter deaths among the elderly.

New figures from the Office of National Statistics show a shocking 7 per cent rise in the number of people who died last winter from illnesses linked to cold weather.

There were almost 20,000 "winter deaths" of elderly people aged 75 and over and 5,900 deaths among younger people between December 2007 and March 2008, that were caused mainly by respiratory diseases.

Bronchitis and pneumonia arising from influenza were among the main causes of death, the Office of National Statistics said.

National Pensioners Convention official Neil Duncan-Jordan was outraged by the figures.

"Since new Labour came to power, 250,000 people have died from the cold who didn't need to," he stormed.

"If that level of deaths had been caused by terrorist attacks, we would be going to war right now."

Mr Duncan-Jordan attacked "ministers who are too frightened to even mention the problem," but he insisted that the government "has the duty to act.

"Ministers could raise the winter fuel payment to at least £500 and intervene to ensure that energy companies pass on the fall in wholesale fuel costs to those worried about high gas and electricity bills," he insisted.

"The government believes that it can't touch private companies, but, if it can do it with the banks, it can intervene with energy firms."

Help the Aged adviser Mervyn Kohler said that the rise in winter deaths was a "disgrace to a government that can spend billions to save our financial institutions.

"Surely some can be spared to save our older people?" he asked.

Mr Kohler explained that "fuel poverty is a blight on society which has now grown to encompass one in four pensioner households."

Age Concern director-general Gordon Lishman urged OAPs to find out if they were entitled to benefits to help with fuel bills.

But he stressed that ministers should do "much more to address unfair energy pricing, which is penalising the poorest pensioners."

The official figures were for England and Wales only. In Scotland, excess winter deaths have fallen to a record low, due to increases in the free central heating programme by the Scottish government.

chas1937

It is also an undeniable fact that many pensioners treat the £250 as a bonus income and do not use it to provide extra heat

I know for a fact that my neighbours either side of me have already spent their heating allowance via the pub and smoking.I think its about time the government made the payments out to power companies and then it would go to the correct use.I'm a pensioner of 71 and I can manage ok as I have a car and also 3 dogs to look after and its the heat from my house that heats both these neighbours living rooms.they dont put on any heating as they say it would mean not going to pub or bookies.They both are having a ball this past week arriving home in taxis as not fit enough to get home otherwise

dodo

I am very surprised that BernardM, Cardew and Kim Yeovil have been allowed to go on slanging each other on this thread whilst proving nothing and achieving even less.
This is supposed to be about Staywarm, a service which was excellent at the start, but has slowly been deteriorating over the years. It is still very good for some pensioners, but not all.
I have enjoyed the benefits almost since it first started and have been grateful for the peace of mind it has given. Now I am classed as a high user and my monthly payment is about to increase from £94 to £146 per month.
I came on here to look for advice as to whether I should stay or go to another supplier and how to check rates etc.
If you want an argument, go somewhere else to do it!