It's STILL tough and not getting better - so how are we coping?

katholicos

greengoblin wrote: »

I'm not quite sure why people equate having a degree with a certain level of intelligence.
It shows you can hoop jump until someone else tells you your clever enough to receive a piece of paper?

I don't know that people here do that? I certainly don't and never have done. I didn't go to uni and i have two children, one is academically talented and the other vocationally talented. My personal opinion...that i have professed for many years, is that intelligence can not be measured by qualifications.

The latter part of your comment i strenuously disagree with. I don't think that education and excelling therein, can be equated to 'hoop jumping'. Education is not about attaining a 'piece of paper', it is about fulfilling your potential if you are academically inclined.

There are walks of life for us all, if no one was inclined to go to uni where would the doctors and surgeons be who you rely on when you are ill?

Similarly, if all people were inclined to go to uni, how would food be manufactured, buildings built, cars made, trains run, buses driven etc.

Life isn't a competition, there may be people who really do believe they are superior to others because they have careers rather than 'jobs', but i believe i am anyones equal, despite my persoinal academic failings. I can rub along with anyone if they are prepared to rub along with me. Each to their own i say.

kezlou

I just would prefer both of my children to attend university, if they decided not to, then i will have to accept it, after all its they lives not mine.

But one condition of the house is that they go to college at the age of 16. No matter what even if they work part time they still have to attend college. Education is important to me.

I am the only person in my huge family inc grandparents, aunties etc who will actively sit down and read a book. Its very depressing, while both of my children are avid readers.

Its not about intelligence, for me it shows independence and meeting new people. Like i said previously i expect BOTH of the children to stay in student halls AWAY from home. I expect them to move away and not just locally. Of course i'll be bawling my eyes out when this happens, but i think its important. No doubt i'll have my OH taking the phone off me and say "will you stop torturing the poor lad and let him go to the pub".

I went to uni late and i had a terrible experience, lack of funding and still didn't get to finish. So i expect the boys to start early and enjoy they lives to the fullest they possibly can.

Kitcaboodle

My best friend doesn't have a degree and she is more intelligent than I am but she's not accademic. For me, I always wanted to do a degree. I still cherish a mild dream of one day doing a masters and a phd but can't think of anything I'd want to study to that level. I think you have to be (reasonably) intelligent to do a degree but you don't need a degree to be intelligent!

greengoblin

I was referring to people in general, and certain people (not on here) I have met specifically.
To the second point of my comment: You are receiving your education in a structured environment. Someone has to mark and judge your work to ascertain what degree you get (1:1 , 2:1 etc) therefore receive a top end degree you must conform to certain formats such as dissertations etc.

I'm not saying uni is a bad idea but it should not be set as the highest standard of intelligence. Many people excel themselves and broaden their horizons without ever going. From a personal interest view the world of botany, geology and zoology would be a lot worse of if it was not for so called "amateurs".
Granted if you eat, breathe and sleep geometry (or similar) you should go and good luck. But I don't think that "getting away from home, living on your own, meeting new people" is a valid excuse to go. Why can't people do that without uni?
Why spend 30K on something you can do it for free?

I'll shut up now:lipsrseal

kezlou

I can only really say this from MY point of view, no one esles.

OKay meeting new people etc, where i live the only for a person to literally escape is by 1) going to university elsewhere or 2) finding a job somewhere else.

The first option is that if you are new to the area a lot of universities are more sympathetic and means new students have more access to available funds.

Second option = need money up front immediately to pay rent etc

Now i know for other people who went to there local uni and didn't recieve any extra funding because it was allocated to students who didn't live locally.

but 30grand is a lot of money for a booze up, but the aim is also to get an education.

Hippeechiq

katholicos wrote: »

I don't know that people here do that? I certainly don't and never have done. I didn't go to uni and i have two children, one is academically talented and the other vocationally talented. My personal opinion...that i have professed for many years, is that intelligence can not be measured by qualifications.

The latter part of your comment i strenuously disagree with. I don't think that education and excelling therein, can be equated to 'hoop jumping'. Education is not about attaining a 'piece of paper', it is about fulfilling your potential if you are academically inclined.

There are walks of life for us all, if no one was inclined to go to uni where would the doctors and surgeons be who you rely on when you are ill?

Similarly, if all people were inclined to go to uni, how would food be manufactured, buildings built, cars made, trains run, buses driven etc.

Life isn't a competition, there may be people who really do believe they are superior to others because they have careers rather than 'jobs', but i believe i am anyones equal, despite my persoinal academic failings. I can rub along with anyone if they are prepared to rub along with me. Each to their own i say.

Very well said katholicos, especially the part in bold - you're a woman after my own heart

greengoblin wrote: »

I'll shut up now :lipsrseal:

Please don't feel like that greengoblin I'm sure everyone on here would agree that we are all entitled to have an opinion, but it's human nature that we wont all agree

rosieben

I don't think anyone here is saying that youngsters shouldn't take a degree, the issue is whether it's a route that suits all of the govenment's magic 50%; I'd like to see more facilities for practical skill-based training which is sadly lacking now.

I agree that studying opens your mind - that surely is the ultimate purpose of education at any level? - but I don't see a degree as the only way

greengoblin

Hippeechiq wrote: »

Please don't feel like that greengoblin I'm sure everyone on here would agree that we are all entitled to have an opinion, but it's human nature that we wont all agree

I meant that i'll stop ranting - i've just re-read what I wrote and that's what it reads like lol.

To quote Cicero "It is impossible to debate without refuting"

Hippeechiq

Ranting shows that you're passionate about what you're discussing - there's nowt wrong with that

*Maya*

ceridwen wrote: »

I DID read the comment in todays newspapers about people having to fill in a form and actually ASK for child allowance - rather than it being the default setting that everyone automatically gets it and I personally would have had to write a letter in telling them NOT to pay it to me.

ceridwen wrote: »

(yes - I personally WILL need my heating allowance when I reach correct age) might not get it till later or be wrongfully means-tested out of it on the other hand

You say you would NOT claim for child benefit if you had children but you WILL claim for heating allowance when its available. Since the child benefit is a hypothetical situation how do you know that you would not need it in the same way that you feel you will need the heating allowance. Its easy to make judgements on other peoples circumstances if they're irelevant to you.