At what point does a guest turn into a tenant?

M.Holloway

Our landlord is getting snippy about a guest that stays over, claiming that they now live there.

At what point does an un-paying guest become a tenant?

What would define them as 'living there'?

Is it to do with length of stay, circumstances, contributing in other ways?

Cheers team!

princeofpounds

Never, unless the landlord accepts rent from them in return for them living there

Landlords have this idea that they should be able to police guest sometimes, but it's not really their business unless there is damage or other potential grounds for eviction under the relevant Act.

Of course they don't need to give a ground once the fixed term is up

hob

if its concil u cant have someone stay over as a 'guest' for more then 4 weeks. i think that its somthing to do with benift ect but i dont know if ur private. i think it is stated in your contract.

M.Holloway

Thanks guys, do you have any links to legal sites you could share?

princeofpounds

According to this site it can even count as harrassing behaviour to prevent your tenant having guests.

http://tenantevictiononline.co.uk/tenanteviction/2010/05/20/illegal-eviction/

According to this UEA guide a tenancy clause prohibiting overnight guests is an unfair and unenforceable clause

http://www.ueastudent.com/image_uploads/advicecentreleaflets/housing_rights_responsibilitie.pdf

The OFT also state that having a guest is a normal use of a property and a clause against it is unenforcable.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf

dboswell

as soon as they smell as the proverb goes.

M.Holloway

Great advice guys

dboswell wrote: »

as soon as they smell as the proverb goes.

I'm not familiar with this?

M.Holloway

Oh also, what if a landlord disputes that a guest is, infact, a guest. And infers that they are living there.

Where does the law lie with this?

tbs624

princeofpounds wrote: »

According to this UEA guide a tenancy clause prohibiting overnight guests is an unfair and unenforceable clause

http://www.ueastudent.com/image_uploads/advicecentreleaflets/housing_rights_responsibilitie.pdf

What this Student Union guide offers is

"A note on Unfair Contract Terms
Sometimes landlords include clauses in contracts that are deemed to be “unfair” in law. An example of such a clause would be the statement that: “tenants may not have guests to stay in their room overnight”.

Not deemed to be unfair in law until tested in the courtroom - so *may* be deemed.

Additionally, this will be referring to *occasional* guests, not those non-tenant "guests" who are in effect moving in, having their post delivered there and so on.

princeofpounds wrote: »

The OFT also state that having a guest is a normal use of a property and a clause against it is unenforcable.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf

You are misquoting the OFT there PoP - what they actually say is:

"Examples of potentially unreasonable prohibitions
Obligation
Against having guests overnight.
OFT view
This is normal use and enjoyment of the property on an occasional basis. (my highlighting)"

Having someone move in for a year can hardly be described as "on an occasional basis"

M.Holloway

Thanks for your detailed reply.

So what other factors contribute to a person being deemed as living somewhere, rather than visiting?

Which of these things can a landlord legally investigate?

I'm thinking:

Post delivered there
Most of their clothes, belongings being there
Contributing to bills

??

Anymore?

To clarify, in my case the guest is not paying rent, not staying for a year, not contributing to bills and infact rents a property not too far away.

tbs624 wrote: »

What this Student Union guide offers is

"A note on Unfair Contract Terms
Sometimes landlords include clauses in contracts that are deemed to be “unfair” in law. An example of such a clause would be the statement that: “tenants may not have guests to stay in their room overnight”.

Not deemed to be unfair in law until tested in the courtroom - so *may* be deemed.

Additionally, this will be referring to *occasional* guests, not those non-tenant "guests" who are in effect moving in, having their post delivered there and so on.

You are misquoting the OFT there PoP - what they actually say is:

"Examples of potentially unreasonable prohibitions
Obligation
Against having guests overnight.
OFT view
This is normal use and enjoyment of the property on an occasional basis. (my highlighting)"

Having someone move in for a year can hardly be described as "on an occasional basis"

tbs624

M.Holloway wrote: »

.... contributing in other ways?
!

Paying *you* for the privilege of moving in perhaps?

Say, for example, that the signed up tenants are all students, who have a council tax exemption. You move in a mate who is a former student , now in work. This triggers a council tax liability, and if its an HMO the LL is on the line.

Say the rent includes bills: the LL will have worked out his figures based on the number of Ts he has signed up. You move in someone else long term more w&t on furnishings, potentially higher utility bills.

Some properties have occupancy limits imposed, some LL's mortgage conditions have conditions imposed regarding the type of T to whom they are allowed to let.

You sound as though you know that this extra person is not in fact a guest and what you are describing is borderline subletting.If that's the case and you were my T, you'd be moving on at FT expiry.

EDIT: post 10 wasn't there when I started this one, so to follow up on points there:

If this "someone" rents a property a short distance away why on earth would they want their post delivered to your address?

I don't know of too many people who ask their house "guests" for contributions to the bills although you now say that this does not apply in your case.