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Living together - does he become liable for her children?
JSB43
Posts: 67 Forumite
F has three children from a previous relationship when ended on the death of the childrens father in 2007. The children are now aged 6, 8 and 9. She also has an infant girl with her present boyfriend who has since moved in.
F was on benefits and looked after the children alone until she met M. He moved in and F had all her benefits stopped. F then relied on M’s income of about £1000 a month as a lorry driver. This arrangement is causing severe hardship on the family unit because most of M’s income is absorbed in rent and council tax, they turn to profuse borrowing from loan sharks well beyond their means.
We, as extended family along F’s grandmother collectively helped all we can since the children’s father died, we paid for their car and its running costs, their family holidays, we taken them all on days out with my own kids, PS3s, lend money etc.. and its all taking a toll on everyone – especially M because its leaving him with no money for his own daughter. M also has to work excessive overtime which gives him minimal family life.
There are also notable problems with Fs 6 year old, she is in trouble at school, wetting the bed and showing disregard for adult authority. Social services arent interested, everywhere F turns for help, she is passed from pillar to post.
M can claim tax credits, but is persistently fobbed off with delays and amount awarded will make little significance to their current situation. My concern is M appears to have been given de-facto liability for F's three children from a previous relationship. He hasn’t adopted them, but in kind, he does treat them as his own but its causing serious hardship and their finances are in a tailspin of ever-increasing debt. Its causing serious strain on their relationship and M has been very close to leaving and taking his daughter with him.
What are their options?
F was on benefits and looked after the children alone until she met M. He moved in and F had all her benefits stopped. F then relied on M’s income of about £1000 a month as a lorry driver. This arrangement is causing severe hardship on the family unit because most of M’s income is absorbed in rent and council tax, they turn to profuse borrowing from loan sharks well beyond their means.
We, as extended family along F’s grandmother collectively helped all we can since the children’s father died, we paid for their car and its running costs, their family holidays, we taken them all on days out with my own kids, PS3s, lend money etc.. and its all taking a toll on everyone – especially M because its leaving him with no money for his own daughter. M also has to work excessive overtime which gives him minimal family life.
There are also notable problems with Fs 6 year old, she is in trouble at school, wetting the bed and showing disregard for adult authority. Social services arent interested, everywhere F turns for help, she is passed from pillar to post.
M can claim tax credits, but is persistently fobbed off with delays and amount awarded will make little significance to their current situation. My concern is M appears to have been given de-facto liability for F's three children from a previous relationship. He hasn’t adopted them, but in kind, he does treat them as his own but its causing serious hardship and their finances are in a tailspin of ever-increasing debt. Its causing serious strain on their relationship and M has been very close to leaving and taking his daughter with him.
What are their options?
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Comments
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You can model the impact of his wages on her benefits by putting their details into the Entitled To (turn 2 us) website, firstly with him living in the property (thus his wages are included) and when he doesn't live in the property if they break up.
Get her to visit the Citizens Advice Bureau about her debts and to double check her benefit entitlements, help with advice on how to deal with the loan sharks and help with the Tax credit calculations, her right to custody of their 4th child if he decides to quit the household. Get them to consider relationship counselling with a body such as Relate.
Why do you think he needs to be the biological parent of the original children to have any responsibility for them?! Their relationship problems are irrelevant to their entitlement to means tested benefits. They also don't get any more from the public purse because of their debts which are excluded from any benefit calculations. Get her to post a statement of accounts on the Debt Free Wannabee board whose
members will advise her where she can make household savings and handle debts.
They are a household and their entire income is counted for the purposes of means tested benefits and allowances, such as LHA, council tax and tax credits. His wages have no impact on the £60 per week child benefit, which is not means tested. The solutions to their problems aren't going to come from extra finance from the public purse.0 -
I think that you would find a family of 2 adults and 4 children on a low income will get quite substantial help from tax credits.
You said that the mother stopped claiming any benefits when they moved in together; even child benefit and child tax credits? They should be getting around £170 per week from child tax credits and substantial help toward council tax and rent.0 -
. Get them to consider relationship counselling with a body such as Relate.
I think I have incorrectly emphasised the causes of the strain on their relationship. Their relationship is fine, but having his wages absorbed by children that are not his, plus, having to make it up by working very long hours denies him time with his daughter.
Why do you think he needs to be the biological parent of the original children to have any responsibility for them?!
I don’t know, that’s is why I am asking here. I just find it odd M has to fork out his wages and forgo a family life with his own daughter to pay for three children that are not his.
I am looking for a law or statutory regulation that makes M liable for children that are not his by virtue of M living with F and her three previous children.
Can anyone put me in the right direction on this point?
The solutions to their problems aren't going to come from extra finance from the public purse.
Its coming out of ours, and I am exploring what entitlements they have. Aside from severe money problems, there are no problems in their relationship.0 -
M can claim tax credits, but is persistently fobbed off with delays and amount awarded will make little significance to their current situation.
This is not right. With 4 children (one under 1) with a take home pay of £1000 they will be entitled to a fair whack of tax credits.
You have also said M is working loads of overtime.....£1000 doesn't seem to reflect that.
Something doesn't add up here.0 -
Oldernotwiser wrote: »I think that you would find a family of 2 adults and 4 children on a low income will get quite substantial help from tax credits.
I hope you are right. Before they moved together, Tax Credits would not say what he would get. They said contact them when M has moved in.Oldernotwiser wrote: »You said that the mother stopped claiming any benefits
I said, -- she met M. He moved in and F had all her benefits stopped.Oldernotwiser wrote: »They should be getting around £170 per week from child tax credits and substantial help toward council tax and rent.
Thats what I thought. Their rent is ~£545 a month, council tax is ~£125 and that is almost 70% of his take-home before he can feed his own daughter. Before M moved in and after the children's father died, F paid NIL council tax and rent.0 -
This is not right. With 4 children (one under 1) with a take home pay of £1000 they will be entitled to a fair whack of tax credits.
You have also said M is working loads of overtime.....£1000 doesn't seem to reflect that.
Something doesn't add up here.
I dont have the exact figures, but I have not included overtime in his monthly salary.
I am posting here to, among other things discover what his tax award should be.
Does anyone know if he is financially responsible for the three other children? and if yes, what are then regulations that govern this?0 -
Yes, he could "swan off" but the fact is he hasn't.
And he should be commended for it.
He has given those three kids everything he can and done so without asking for anything in return. All he asked for is a normal family life and be able to bring his daughter up under his own means.0 -
I assume that after the death of the childrens father that Widowed Parent's Allowance was put into payment? Either that and / or Income Support plus Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit. When the person getting WPA begins to live with someone the WPA then ceases. In this case your daughter (?) should be getting tax credits and some Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit.0
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if you love someone enough to move in with them and they have children from a previous relationship, then surely you class as a family and it sounds to me as though this man just wants to provide for himself and his daughter, which sounds a little selfish to me, that attitude is not going to help anyone is it?Have a Bsc Hons open degree from the Open University 2015 :j:D:eek::T0
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My partner and I have been together for 9 years and recently married. I have helped to support his children by buying food and clothes when they are with us, sharing the cost of holidays etc as I love my partner and want us to be happy!
I have no legal financial responsibilty to his children and sometimes find it hard that the maintenance that he pays via private arrangement, means that we don't have much money in some months. We have delayed having a child of our own until we were financially able to afford it.
It is really important that they get advice on all the benefits that they are entitled to and claim them appropriately.
For purposes of benefit, the state would consider the children as part of his household and any benefits would be considered as such.
It is always hard to come to a relationship when the other party has children and you don't but that is a choice that he has made.I currently manage a Housing Benefit service and have been working in Housing / council tax benefit (as was) since 2001.
All views expressed in my posts are my own opinions and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.0
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