What can I do to improve my relationship with my father?

Steel_2

Your father is a sack of sh*t. He knows what he's doing. He can't fail to. The fact that he took that very heartfelt letter your wrote into his business and showed everyone demonstrates the depths of his deliberate sh*ttiness. Your father thought only of himself when he took that letter in to show people - he wanted to 'demonstrate' to everyone that he wasn't the kind of person you wrote about - his insecurity and ego all combined together and he had to have proof that it wasn't him, that it wasn't true. I bet his staff all agreed with him about how awful you were to keep their jobs while thinking "Wow. How could a father do that to his daughter. What a sack of sh*t"

What he doesn't realise is that he screwed up on that. A decent father would have been heartily ashamed that his daughter would feel the need to write this letter. A decent father would never have shown anyone in embarrassment.

I'm sorry he's your dad. It's time to stop emotionally detach yourself from this situation and recognise you will not change him. You will not have the relationship with him your crave. He is absolutely incapable of it and you are driving yourself nuts trying. You need to stop opening yourself up to letting him hurt you. No more pleading or telling him how you feel and telling him he's hurt you. You're like a puppy that keeps going back for a kicking. Deep down he loves the power he has over you. he knows he's hurting you and he enjoys it. It's time for you to protect yourself at all times and not let this man have such power over you.

I suspect this sack of sh*t, this poor excuse for a man let alone a father, who lavished money on his children in the belief that would make him a 'good parent' in everyone's eyes, is so unbelievably narcissistic he cannot see you at all. All he sees is himself and that will never change.

Look up some information on the net about narcissists. I suspect you'll see your father looking back at you in the descriptions. I did when I looked, and my life began when I threw away my rose tinted glasses and expectations for what a father should do and just accepted the sorry specimen in front of me throwing tantrums and trying to compete with me or hurt me on purpose was all he was capable of being. The minute I did that i took back the power. I don't love my father. I don't much like him. He drifts on the periphery of my life and always will, even though he lives a few minutes down the road from me. You lose them as a father but you gain yourself, which is much more valuable.

The reason why your father can't understand why you have a problem with your brother etc is because your father has no capacity for empathy - narcs never do - and it would never occur to him anyone would have a thought or a feeling different to his. He doesn't mind so why should you. And if you do mind, he really doesn't care anyway. There is no logic to their thinking or behaviour except everything should be about them. Accept that fact and you're halfway there to freeing yourself. If you know they won't behave according to normal conventions, you're never upset when they behave like loons. Most of it is actually driven by their need to look good, control people and situations and manipulate things to their own advantage. So really, if they can get a situation to be about them, they're happy as evidenced by what you wrote here:

"Shouted because my mum had given me the Tesco petrol coupon from the weekly shop (I'm her taxi service) and he wanted it and then said out of the blue in a sweet polite voice, "darling please could you call this number for me?"

"She threw him out and started divorce proceedings but for months he would come round begging to come back and then he started threatening her and eventually she gave in."

"Meeeeee. Pay attention to meeeee. I'm important. I'm the most important thing. Meeeee! I yell and then be sweet and they won't know what's hit them and do what I want because they'll be confused and scared about what's just happened."

"..but apparently my dad was ecstatic. When I was born he had to been given tablets to calm him down because he was so over the moon at having a baby and didn't sleep because of excitement for a week. The doctors and midwives said they had never seen such a happy dad."

"meeeee. Stop paying attention to that baby and my wife and pay attention to meeee. I'm the most important one here. I'm so important that no-one will ever have a reaction to a birth like mine and then all the nurses and doctors will remember meeeee forever"

There's nothing wrong with you. It's him. It always has been.

Start withdrawing your time and attention from him and lavish it on yourself. They'll probably be fireworks and reminders of all he's done for you. Don't share private or personal information at any time and cultivate a group of supportive people around you. Not your mother or immediate family. They'll be indoctrinated into behaving a certain way with him and when you try to escape, they'll pull you back so you don't upset the status quo.

Good luck and become strong. Become Miss Independent and dump this 'father'. Oh and your therapist too. They obviously don't have a clue what a narcissist is. The path they are suggesting will hurt you far worse. Distance not closeness is what you need.

Steel_2

The lady who wrote this blog died a couple of years ago, hence the reason why it hasn't been updated, but this is a good an introduction to the bizarre world of narcissists.

http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/

DVardysShadow

Steel wrote: »

Your father is a sack of sh*t. He knows what he's doing. He can't fail to.

Steel, I can't fault the analysis. But, you know, this comes across as a lot of anger. I can't fault you for being angry in your situation, but I have to say that miss_independent seems just hurt, not angry or bitter. I'm hoping that she will come through this and deal with the situation of her father as a sad thing rather than a thing to be angry about.

jc2703

I've just wrote a long ramble that ended up being much more about my situation than yours!

I know about growing up wondering how you can expect anyone to love you when your own Father didn't. Took a long time to realise that it was his problem and not mine. I'm not sure I would advocate healing the relationship as there is only so many times you can put yourself up for rejection. I think it would be much wiser to accept him for what he is, accept your relationship for what it is (or isn't!) and concentrate on achieving what you can in your life by your own merit. And Good Luck!!

miss_independent

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DVardysShadow

miss_independent wrote: »

Yes, this is what I felt for so many years. Unlovable, unwantable. And then as you say, I realised it wasn't about me, it was to do with them and them not knowing how to love. And that it turn probably stemmed from their own upbringing. I am still learning that I have to stop putting myself in that victim/ unlovable role but I suppose these things take time! One of the biggest reasons I want to sort everything out now whilst I am in my twenties is because I want to have children one day and I want them to know they are loved and to have them to grown up with good self-esteem and happy childhood memories. In that way, I could say something good came out of all the sadness. And I suppose I would like to say too that I eventually found happiness and love and contentment.

There are 2 ways of responding to an abnormal situation. One is to conform and the other is to rebel. Obviously you have not conformed to the pattern of life given by your parents and particularly by your father. I think the way you handled your father is absolutely spot on. It has taken courage to confront him and a great deal of maturity to do it without going off on one.

I just want to point you to a sub story within the Wizard of Oz. Remember the characters



Dorothy meets the Lion with no courage, the Tin Man with no heart and the Scarecrow with no brain. They go through their adventures aware that they are lacking - but in truth they develop the attributes they think they lack. Of course, the Wizard of Oz, when they meet him, gives them what they think they are missing. But the truth is that they have already developed these characteristics - so he has given them nothing they didn't have already. The Wizard is exposed as a charlatan - but actually what he gives them is a belief in themselves.

Likewise, miss_independent, I think you are sorted. I don't mean that you have nothing to learn and no growing to do. But I think you are sorted, I really do.

miss_independent

DVardysShadow wrote: »

There are 2 ways of responding to an abnormal situation. One is to conform and the other is to rebel. Obviously you have not conformed to the pattern of life given by your parents and particularly by your father. I think the way you handled your father is absolutely spot on. It has taken courage to confront him and a great deal of maturity to do it without going off on one.

I just want to point you to a sub story within the Wizard of Oz. Remember the characters



Dorothy meets the Lion with no courage, the Tin Man with no heart and the Scarecrow with no brain. They go through their adventures aware that they are lacking - but in truth they develop the attributes they think they lack. Of course, the Wizard of Oz, when they meet him, gives them what they think they are missing. But the truth is that they have already developed these characteristics - so he has given them nothing they didn't have already. The Wizard is exposed as a charlatan - but actually what he gives them is a belief in themselves.

Likewise, miss_independent, I think you are sorted. I don't mean that you have nothing to learn and no growing to do. But I think you are sorted, I really do.

Yes, I did feel more powerful and in control when I spoke to him than I ever have and I think both my parents were shocked I could state by case without screaming, crying or manipulating (their usual tactics!). I think that somewhere deep deep down inside they are aware that I am fully conscious of the fact they caused alot of damage and I have always been very submissive but I think they both see me as a bit of a time bomb which could go off at anytime. I suppose the way I think, "If my own parents never loved me then what kind of person does that make me?" they know they may be faced with, "Our daughter doesn't love us, what kind of people does that make us?" one day and the difference is, I was a tiny baby when it started - what could I do wrong? They would be faced with the truth that as grown adults it was their actions that pushed me away. They would also see how much I truly tried to be the daughter they wanted. I think they both tried their best and love me as much as they are capable but they just didn't know how to love anyone properly and unconditionally.

Ahh, the Wizard Of Oz... My favourite film as a child and one that still holds a place in my heart. Yes, I have always believed that all of us hold the answers inside of us (gosh, how cheesy ). It just takes time for everything to fall into place. Thanks for your advice and faith that I'll get there eventually!

Steel_2

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Steel, I can't fault the analysis. But, you know, this comes across as a lot of anger. I can't fault you for being angry in your situation, but I have to say that miss_independent seems just hurt, not angry or bitter. I'm hoping that she will come through this and deal with the situation of her father as a sad thing rather than a thing to be angry about.

Anger is part of the process you go through. That's the stage I'm at and I'm sure Miss will go there too. Very similar to grieving I think.

I used to be very hurt by his behaviour and then when I realised what i was dealing with - someone who did these things on purpose - then the whole range of emotions comes into it. Disbelief is a big one that I'm over now. I beleieve.

I've known about my father for about a year, and it will take very many more years where I'm at the point I'm sad about not having a functional relationship with him. Although I can't see that happening. I very rarely feel sad for people who have set out to deliberately hurt me.

My father does have his good points and about 50% of the time we used to get on fine. We have the same hobbies and interests. But his deliberately horrible behaviour the other 50% of the time that ruined it. It is difficult not to feel continued anger when you see someone repeating their bad behaviour day in day out, deliberately manipulating people and situations to their own ends. That's why you have to have emotional detachment and space.

Narc wounds are not like those that happen decades ago that can eventually heal. The scab is ripped off every single day with a narc, so the only hope you have of healing is to actually stay away from them. You have the talk, you think it's done, they do the same thing again. You have the talk, you think it's done, they do the same thing again. And on. And on. That's why I no longer talk about that kind of thing to him. He simply refuses to accept he's done anything, insists I'm odd and then plays to victim to anyone who will listen.

I may not have geographical distance (yet!) but I do have emotional distance now. I can step back and see the games he plays and how I and other members of the family contribute, especially my mother.

Steel_2

miss_independent wrote: »

Steel, thank you for everything you shared with me. I can imagine that you too had a sad upbringing and I hope you are finding some peace and happiness now. It has been suggested to me in the past that my mother is a narcissist, so God help me if my father is one too! I always say that my parents aren't narcissists and try to defend them but after looking at those websites (and other things I have read) I can see some traits which do apply and also some effects that I have experienced which would fit with being an adult child of narcissists. They are very reliant on me and very reluctant to let me go, be independent or form close relationships with anyone outside the family.

You might find you mother has taken on narc traits to survive herself. My mother has. I have to be very careful what i tell her as information is conveniently fed to my father when he's about to have a go at her for something. That then deflects his anger onto me and I get an abusive phone call. Or rather he tries. I leave the answerphone on, delete his message and don't ring him back.

I think the biggest hurt for me was realising my mother had been selling me out to him. And then one day, I watched her join him in attacking me. I'd been no contact with him for about three months and had dropped off some Christmas presents, luckily with my husband or the nastiness could well have escalated. From that moment on my eyes were open to her behaviour. So was hubby's. He finally understood.

miss_independent wrote: »

Whilst I can't speak for Steel, I would agree that I am hurt far more than I am angry. Sometimes I think if I could get angry, if I felt anger about the !!!! my parents put me through (and continue to) I would be getting to a healthier place?!? If that makes any sense! I don't want to keep going on about my childhood because I know how irritating that can be for people to hear but growing up it was vital for me to stay in control of my emotions at all times. Feeling anger (and showing it) would have ended up with me either being physically injured or put into care, so for me it was a survival instinct not to get angry about things I probably had every right to be angry about.

For me the hurt passed quite quickly after I had my lightbulb moment. I did a lot of intensive reading and moved onto anger and now I flit between anger and detachement, more so the latter as the months pass. But sometimes things make it flare up again, like your posts!!! I'm angry at every narc at the world for the way they treat people they are supposed to care for. Keep on reading and learning, especially about the games narcs play and how those around them put up with the games. Learn how they can drag you in and turn situations around to make you the bully and them the victim.

I fully understand your need to stay in control of your emotions when a child. I spent 19 years in "flight or flight" mode, but sometimes I did push back and not let him get away with nastiness which led to violence. I will put my hands up here and tell you I once slapped my mother and once punched my father in the face, both times when they individually thought they could control me with violence. On both occasions (I think I was 17 with my mother and 19 with my father) they both hit or punched me and I snapped. They never tried again.

All the real nastiness surfaced again when I met my now husband, who is the very opposite of my father and comes with a sweet gently loving family. Boy were my eyes opened to what a normal family can be like and that's what led me to examine what on earth was going on with my own family.

I now spend a lot of my time in peace. Knowing I did nothing wrong as a child and there was nothing I could have done was the biggest help I could have.

I hope you find that kind of peace too.

lynzpower

Hi Miss Independent

WELL DONE with your scholarship, you should be VERY proud of YOUR OWN achievements here! How Wonderful.

I note the "shifts" here, Steels, "they never hit me again" and yours

Yes, I did feel more powerful and in control when I spoke to him than I ever have and I think both my parents were shocked I could state by case without screaming, crying or manipulating (their usual tactics!). I think that somewhere deep deep down inside they are aware that I am fully conscious of the fact they caused alot of damage and I have always been very submissive but I think they both see me as a bit of a time bomb which could go off at anytime

You are subtly shifting the family system that is shrouded in silence, shame and your own compliance, in a way that they are not expecting. they dont know how to cope with it. Its a challenge to them and their "parenting authority" as you say, a time bomb that can go off at any time, the potential to explode truth all over the place that will; drip down their faces and it will be seen.

I would wholeheartedly recommend a book called TOXIC PARENTS by Susan Forward which will help you to understand the system http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0553284347/ref=sr_1_2_olp?ie=UTF8&s=gateway&qid=1278935442&sr=8-2&condition=used Just 1.46 on here!

There is a section in it on healing and moving on, and how to deal with a situation post-death if that is what it comes to, in creating peace for yourself.

I wish you all the best this stuff isnt easy xx