Refuse Work Placement on Flexible New Deal

Arg

Jowo wrote: »

In some US states, a person can claim unemployment benefit for 2 years maximum across their WHOLE life, not just a revolving door of brief employment, followed by years of unemployment benefit. Once it's used up, or if they prefer to 'save' it as a last resort, they are required to attend to attend either a FULL time supervised job search or community placement and their benefit gets docked if they are late or miss attendance. Now that's really harsh.

They also have massively increase violent crime and corrupt justice system too.

I deleted the rest of the quote because it was a bit daft as anyone can bend the figures round to suit themselves.

Anyway the OP asked about working for less than the minimum wage.
I wonder how it is affected by these laws and the part of the human rights act which is against slavery.
Are you still even on the JSA if your handed over to these companies?

cassieB57

you are not an 'employee' ;you dont receive a wage or pay tax or NI, so NMW legislation does not apply

cassieB57

human rights act defines a slave:
What is a Slave?

A slave is any person that is:

• forced to work through threat of violence, physical or mental
• ’owned’ or overseen by an employer, again usually through threat of abuse
• treated as subhuman and sold as ‘property’
• physically restrained or prevented from exercising their freedom of movement

Put aside any thoughts of your own job, it is easy to make light of it, but you could walk into work and quit if you wanted to. You aren’t going to be beaten, starved or punished.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/guidance/docs/slavery-and-Servitude.pdf

kingfisherblue

People who complain about work placements should spare a thought for carers - we have to give a minimum of 35 hours a week care to someone who has substantial care needs (sometimes both day and night), for a weekly payment of £53.90. Many carers give in excess of one hundred hours. There is no NMW for us.

It has been estimated that carers save the country around £80 billion a year.

Incidentally, this thread is eight months old.

Jowo_2

Arg wrote: »

...
I deleted the rest of the quote because it was a bit daft as anyone can bend the figures round to suit themselves.

Anyway the OP asked about working for less than the minimum wage.

I know that people can bend the figures round to suit themselves - some JSA claimants that are outraged about compulsory workplacements for no or little extra benefits which they calculate are less than NMW often forget to factor in their council tax, child tax credits and LHA.

They therefore forget hundreds of pounds of other income each month, plus that they have been paid this for many months, or even years, and only have a few weeks of compulsory placements in that period.

WhiteHorse

Nickdolman wrote: »

Bad news is i still have to go on the course from 9-4 even though ive got a job. I rung them up and they have told me i need to join in and look for a job and if i dont they will stop all benefits and when im there i have to look for a job or they will stop my benefits and do as they say or they will stop my benifits WHAT A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY

It is a waste of time and money, but on the other hand, they have no idea if this other job will actually materialise.

mummytofour

Strange if your wife gets carers why are u on JSA and not making a joint IS claim?

Arg

cassieB57 wrote: »

you are not an 'employee' ;you dont receive a wage or pay tax or NI, so NMW legislation does not apply

They're still a worker and your interpretation of human rights is in favour of the OP.

cassieB57

mummytofour wrote: »

Strange if your wife gets carers why are u on JSA and not making a joint IS claim?

Only a guess, but maybe at the relatively young age of 41, he doesn't want to completely remove himself from the job market; by becoming a partner on his wife's IS claim he would receive even less help from the jobcentre than he does now.

cassieB57

Arg wrote: »

They're still a worker and your interpretation of human rights is in favour of the OP.

In what way- how is he under threat of violence for refusing to work?

"Although the right is absolute, not all forced labour will be considered to fall within Article 4, and paragraph (3) of the Article sets out a number of matters which will NOT be considered ‘forced or compulsory labour’. So military service, or community service as part of a sentence lawfully imposed by the Court will not be considered to fall within Article 4. Attempts have been made to argue that a requirement to do voluntary work as part of your professional training, a requirement to do work based training as a condition of entitlement to unemployment benefits, or a requirement to do jury service breached Article 4. The European Court of Human Rights rejected all such arguments."


And NMW legislation applies to 'employees' not 'workers' (for example it does not include self employed)