New attacks on I.B claimants

paulrn_2

It is all very simple really, if someone is disabled and really cannot work at all then they should get a reasonable standard of living. However they must be prepared to undergo a strict level of assessment that will weed out the lazy scroungers. When this is completed we will be able to look at those on IB and know that they are genuine claiments who deserve our support. I am not willing to pay out because someone feels stressed or has let themselves go they should do something about it, I am however willing to pay for those that need it. So stop being so emotional about it and face the harsh facts that we can no longer afford it.

kaya

irishjohn wrote: »

If reducing our debt, making our country more stable and developing policies which make the UK a good place to do business with, then the jobs will come as entrepreneurs and businesses see here as a good place to invest. The only jobs the government can invent are public service jobs and they have made it quite clear that that is not a road they will take. Thank goodness, having experienced public and private sector employment I know where I had the cushiest number.

given the millions of unemployed people we have already and the millions more they will create by taking people off of incapacity benefit do you honestly believe that there will ever be enough reasonably paid employment for everybody in this country? The government dont give a rats butt about the unemployed and sick in this country, all they are concerned with is lining there own pockets and looking good in the media, if you are unemployed then you are not paying tax to them

irishjohn

kaya wrote: »

given the millions of unemployed people we have already and the millions more they will create by taking people off of incapacity benefit do you honestly believe that there will ever be enough reasonably paid employment for everybody in this country?

The government dont give a rats butt about the unemployed and sick in this country, all they are concerned with is lining there own pockets and looking good in the media, if you are unemployed then you are not paying tax to them

There may well never be enough employment for everyone in this country. I had to move to find work in my preferred field in the 70s so not a lot of change there. I would be interested to know how many millions you think are to be removed from incapacity benefit and what the total unemployed will then be?

Your comment about the government's views on the unemployed and sick are interesting. I suggest you look more closely at some extreme countries and what they do for the unemployed, the sick and the disabled and then look again at your own country and ask yourself if your statement is wholly accurate.

I suggest starting at the top of the tree with the USA and their benefits systems and then move on to some of the African nations with their dictatorships - maybe giving you a view on ther extremes in both democracies and dictatorships worldwide.

Trialia

irishjohn wrote: »

The Government has indicated it will look at everything and do what they can - I say give them the chance, and it may well be that benefit levels will fall but sick and disabled will contimnue to be looked after, although some of us may need to dip voluntarily into our own wealth to help out - I do that with my own mum without any grumbles, I believe the state can only do so much for her - and I want it to continue to provide what I cannot, health care etc. I can put food on her table.

Sadly, some of us don't have that kind of support. I think your mum is very lucky to have you.

The problem with my family is that my primary condition is hereditary and degenerative, and my father also suffers from it. My mother died when I was a teenager, and my stepmother is a professional, albeit underpaid, carer. So I can't really ask for parental support, as he already needs it as much as I do, and they don't live close enough for her to be able to help me in other ways.

Unfortunately, I have to fight with limited stamina to keep my DLA as it is, because none of my conditions are visible and they're not the kind where you can look at a test result and see them, either. HEDS can only be diagnosed by clinical observation, and ATOS aren't up to standard (but then, since there are only two NHS connective tissue clinics in the country, neither are most here!). Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of exclusion - and with me it's secondary, constantly triggered by HEDS. And bipolar disorder, well, MH issues are notorious for their difficulty in diagnosis.

So basically, I don't exactly blame them for having a hard time figuring out whether I need the help or not, because even if they had halfway decent knowledge about invisible illness they might have a hard time, but I do blame all the people throwing mud at those of us with invisible disabilities who are forced to be in receipt of benefit - and yes I said forced, because I have no choice - just because the media tells them we're all scroungers.

Don't get me wrong - I know how lucky we all are! If this were the USA I'd be dead by now, my medication would cost me $35,000 per year alone, which would put me on the street. But that doesn't mean it's fair to target those of us who have a hard time proving our cases to the ATOS idiots - they should get them actually trained!

irishjohn

Trialia wrote: »

Sadly, some of us don't have that kind of support. I think your mum is very lucky to have you.

The problem with my family is that my primary condition is hereditary and degenerative, and my father also suffers from it. My mother died when I was a teenager, and my stepmother is a professional, albeit underpaid, carer. So I can't really ask for parental support, as he already needs it as much as I do, and they don't live close enough for her to be able to help me in other ways.

Unfortunately, I have to fight with limited stamina to keep my DLA as it is, because none of my conditions are visible and they're not the kind where you can look at a test result and see them, either. HEDS can only be diagnosed by clinical observation, and ATOS aren't up to standard (but then, since there are only two NHS connective tissue clinics in the country, neither are most here!). Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of exclusion - and with me it's secondary, constantly triggered by HEDS. And bipolar disorder, well, MH issues are notorious for their difficulty in diagnosis.

So basically, I don't exactly blame them for having a hard time figuring out whether I need the help or not, because even if they had halfway decent knowledge about invisible illness they might have a hard time, but I do blame all the people throwing mud at those of us with invisible disabilities who are forced to be in receipt of benefit - and yes I said forced, because I have no choice - just because the media tells them we're all scroungers.

Don't get me wrong - I know how lucky we all are! If this were the USA I'd be dead by now, my medication would cost me $35,000 per year alone, which would put me on the street. But that doesn't mean it's fair to target those of us who have a hard time proving our cases to the ATOS idiots - they should get them actually trained!

I am sorry - I cannot follow your post as I have no understanding of some of the abbreviations you have used. I do want to emphasise two things

I am pleased to help my mum, and can at the moment afford to provide little luxuries for her, but one day I may not be able to. Also as a single man with no offspring I am unlikely to have any support network in the future if I find myself with health issues, so I do realise that not everyone has direct family help. However the money is not there to provide for everyone's every need so both you and I may need to be satisficed with less than we would like simply because we have a condition which prevents us from being self supporting.

Secondly, I am uneasy with your point that you are specifically being targeted. The policy is unambiguous, the government wants to ensure that help goes to those who truly need it - and if you truly need it then you will get it, it may take quite a struggle to get it but I want to keep faith with the government's plan to root out those who get it and don't need it and use that money for those who do.

Please remember that you live within a sector of society where because society rejected your sexual orientation for a long time. As a result you will know that friends can sometimes be more like family and there are resources out there to give advice and support to people like you and me. Not all help has to be financial, it can come in so many other ways.

fatou256

Trialia wrote: »

But that doesn't mean it's fair to target those of us who have a hard time proving our cases to the ATOS idiots - they should get them actually trained!

To be honest they should get rid of them and rely on consultant and gp evidence things will be fairer and shorter too ....
I do not see how fraudulent claim can arise considering the amount of info s they require from you ..

this new measure will result in more appeals , whcih will cost even more money !

what i am questioning here, it is osborne commimtent to reduce the deficit will be as hard and tough to the rich as it is to us .

Trialia

irishjohn wrote: »

I am sorry - I cannot follow your post as I have no understanding of some of the abbreviations you have used. I do want to emphasise two things.

...

Secondly, I am uneasy with your point that you are specifically being targeted. The policy is unambiguous, the government wants to ensure that help goes to those who truly need it - and if you truly need it then you will get it, it may take quite a struggle to get it but I want to keep faith with the government's plan to root out those who get it and don't need it and use that money for those who do.

Please remember that you live within a sector of society where because society rejected your sexual orientation for a long time. As a result you will know that friends can sometimes be more like family and there are resources out there to give advice and support to people like you and me. Not all help has to be financial, it can come in so many other ways.

I'll begin at the end! I have a few very good friends who have helped me in non-financial ways - my emergency contact is a darling who, though she cannot do this kind of thing regularly for me, has been known to come over on a bad day, cook me dinner, do all the washing-up when I've been unable to do it for a week, and do laundry for me and hang it out. More than once during a period of very bad fatigue. So yes, I do understand that, and I'm glad to have that support too.

That said, the financial support I receive is also a necessity in my condition. I would be almost completely isolated if I didn't have the laptop I currently have on rent-to-buy, as I have a nasty telephone phobia, auditory processing problems and am very often housebound during winter and poor weather, so I use it to order food, clothing, ferrules for the walking stick I use when I can get out, to book transport if I need to go somewhere... all that. (I don't have live TV, and I don't spend my little income on drinking or smoking either, and those particular comments get my back right up when I read them from people who don't know what it's like, as a side-note!)

The policy itself is unambiguous. I'm okay with that. It is the way it's being implemented that upsets me and makes me feel targeted, as someone with an invisible disability. You may not have noticed as you appear to have the privilege of being able-bodied yourself, but society's attitude towards those of us who are not can be incredibly reprehensible at times, even in little ways that mount up when you have to deal with them every day. The thing is that ATOS and their 'professionals' do not do their research on less-common and non-visible disabling conditions when they come up, and so they treat us all like fakers, which is very difficult when most of your life rides on their examinations! The emotional trauma involved in dealing with a 'doctor' who doesn't know what they're talking about and/or who doesn't believe you when you're suffering is very difficult to explain to someone who's never felt it. It makes everything else worse when your health problems are affected by stress.

So that you know, the abbreviations I used -- HEDS stands for "hypermobility Ehlers-Danlos syndrome", a degenerative, hereditary collagen disorder that means most of my joints like to dislocate on a frequent basis, I'm in chronic pain and deferred fatigue, and I will most likely be in a wheelchair by the time I am 40 - I'm on morphine for it now and I'm only 24. It has a whole list of nasty secondary symptoms that go with it, including the chronic pain disorder fibromyalgia syndrome.

MH just stands for "mental health".

irishjohn

I am very fortunate to have been able bodied and therefore able to fend for myself. I grew up visiting a blind aunt with a paralysed arm whose quality of life was such that she was probably one of the most miserable people I ever met, so I was fortunate to know the negatives associated with disability and develop an empathy. I am please to hear that you do have some level of support network and we are so very fortunate that the internet has created a much more open world for all of us - people no longer have to feel isolated as they did in previous generations.

Unfortunately the pit is not bottomless. And when its emptied onto the table and divided up, then the more people its to be shared among the less there is for each. If just 1 in 10 is a false claimant and is rotted out - it leaves more for the rest. I think we have to give the government a chance to do just that. There may be more hoops for you to jump through (bad pun - sorry) but the result will be more of the pot for you. Seven weeks in is a bit too soon to be badmouthing the new government, all I would ask is - give them a chance and see what the outcome is - you may be surprised. Maybe you will let me know what an ATOS is as well?

Trialia

Oh, I'm sorry! I assumed you'd know since you're in this area of the forum. ATOS are the company who perform medical examinations for Incapacity and DLA.

As for jumping through hoops, I've had a medical exam every year from the age of 16 until last year when I was finally awarded indefinite higher mobility and low care. Their 'hoops' make me suicidal.

Mandymull

i think it only fair that everyone who SHOULD receive ESA receive it.
THere are many who receive IB who are able to work to some degree.
And yes i do mean many.....i am the mum of two girls, one aged 18 and the other 16 who are profoundly disabled and have absolutely no chance of working for their living.....i would give ANYTHING if i could change that, i hate having to fight the system to get the equipment they need to live safely every day.....
the system does need to change and I feel strongly that those who DESERVE, meet the criteira set and therefore PROVE they are unable to work are supported to lead a comfortable, safe and happy life.