Gatso Roadside Cameras

king100

liam8282 wrote: »

Wee Willy Harris why the need for the abuse?

Did you not read the ACPO guidelines that you provided the link for?

It clearly states:

"This guidance does not and cannot replace the police officer's discretion and they may decide to issue a summons or a fixed penalty notice in respect of offences committed at speeds lower than those set out in the table. Moreover, in particular circumstances, driving at speeds lower than the legal limit may result in prosecution for other offences, for example dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention when the speed is inappropriate and inherently unsafe."

So it is totally reasonable that people have received fixed penalty notices and points for doing the 1, 2, 3mph above the speed limit.

However, as you were talking about prosecution when you were referring to your article in Lancashire, that is a different thing altogether.

Prosecution being:

"To follow through; to commence and continue an action or judicial proceeding to its ultimate conclusion. To proceed against a defendant by charging that person with a crime and bringing him or her to trial."

Therefore, is it not you that is the muppet?

Surely we are talking prosecution here, have you ever got a parking ticket then disputed it.

Thats what we are talking about, if you got a FPN for speeding 31 in a 30 would you dispute it or not. I would.

Anyone who has an FPN for speeding 3 miles over should dispute it.

If they want to take the FPN then thats what they want, if you took to court you would more than likely win.

Wee_Willy_Harris

Paradigm wrote: »

& what? That's Lancashire, I don't live there!

My point is that when you come onto an internet forum & call people liars you should really have all the facts!

The fact is.. you can be prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit by 32, 33, 34 mph & people have been.

The fact is... the ACPO guidelines are exactly that, guidelines! Nothing in legislation to say any force has to adhere to them, nor is there any defence by trying to prove they didn't!

To further answer kings point... whether you choose to defend or not is your choice & will depend on a number of factors, mostly how much cash you have to throw at it!. To defend you must be prosecuted, yes?

All I'm asking for is evidence. Just one report would do. I've shown how 2 of our largest Police forces treat such examples (ie they don't prosecute), That's thousands of motorists and thousands of square miles. All you need do is provide ONE verifiable example. I couldn't be much fairer.

Paradigm

Wee_Willy_Harris wrote: »

Your post is the work of a shoe repairer.

You carry on in your own world fella, sooner or later reality will catch up with you.

king100

Paradigm wrote: »

& what? That's Lancashire, I don't live there!

My point is that when you come onto an internet forum & call people liars you should really have all the facts!

The fact is.. you can be prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit by 32, 33, 34 mph & people have been.

The fact is... the ACPO guidelines are exactly that, guidelines! Nothing in legislation to say any force has to adhere to them, nor is there any defence by trying to prove they didn't!

To further answer kings point... whether you choose to defend or not is your choice & will depend on a number of factors, mostly how much cash you have to throw at it!. To defend you must be prosecuted, yes?

Being sent a FPN is not being prosecuted.

Paradigm

Wee_Willy_Harris wrote: »

All I'm asking for is evidence. Just one report would do. I've shown how 2 of our largest Police forces trat such examples (ie they don't prosecute), That's thousands of motorists and thousands of square miles. All you need do is provide ONE verifiable example. I couldn't be much fairer.

Why would I lie? How would that benefit me in any way?

liam8282

Wee Willy Harris I have not disagreed with you, with regard to the margin for error. I think it was me who first brought it up and you confirmed it. But that is only with respect to fixed cameras.

The thread has diverged onto manned cameras, where the speeding is at the officers discretion, as I said before.

There is also some confusion about prosecution and the penalties for speeding. Personally I class being prosecuted as being taken to court, where as the majority of punishments are dealt with a fixed penalty notice and points.

For example if I was doing 33mph outside a school at 3.30 pm, on a rainy day.

Fixed camera probably wouldn't catch me.

Manned camera, I would probably be pulled over and given a fixed penalty notice, very unlikely I would be prosecuted still though.

king100

Paradigm wrote: »

Why would I lie? How would that benefit me in any way?

It was six years ago.

You took the points thus you accepted the fine. You were not prosecuted, taken to court. You were fined, and said ok i will take the fine.

liam8282

king100 wrote: »

Surely we are talking prosecution here, have you ever got a parking ticket then disputed it.

Thats what we are talking about, if you got a FPN for speeding 31 in a 30 would you dispute it or not. I would.

Anyone who has an FPN for speeding 3 miles over should dispute it.

If they want to take the FPN then thats what they want, if you took to court you would more than likely win.

I am not disputing any of this.

But there is clearly a difference between manned cameras and fixed cameras.

I would be surprised if a person went to court to argue their case about breaking the speed limit, against a manned camera. If the correct discretion has been used by the operating officer, what defence could possibly be used? At the end of the day you are breaking the speed limit.

Wee_Willy_Harris

Paradigm wrote: »

You carry on in your own world fella, sooner or later reality will catch up with you.

If you can find an example of this reality, please feel free to post it.

liam8282

Wee_Willy_Harris wrote: »

West Yorkshire agree......

http://www.safetycameraswestyorkshire.co.uk/faq-answer.htm?faq=126



http://www.safetycameraswestyorkshire.co.uk/faq-answer.htm?faq=126

"Answer
Speed enforcement in West Yorkshire takes place at ACPO thresholds.

West Yorkshire Casualty Reduction Partnership enforcement officers do not use hand-held devices "


ACPO clearly states that the thresholds are guidelines, which do not and cannot replace the operating officers discretion, funnily enough the point I pasted earlier.