School declined holidays and branded the kids truants

poet123

I know of no legislation either, so I think it is slightly underhanded and dishonest of the school to say this, and to say it is a national initiative, when the reality is somewhat different, as the previous poster pointed out.

Murphy_The_Cat

mogadon wrote: »

There is a difference, because if the head authorises, it's not illegal.

But having said that, I'd like to see schools take a much harder line with it. £100 fines are just a farce and a money making exercise. If parents don't value their child's school place enough to actually use it, then they don't deserve it. Let them go to a school where no-one gives a damn if the kids turn up or not, and free up places in the decent schools for the kids that actually attend.

Not at all, and I am not sure why you would think that. I think it's a great thing. A chance to work, and see what real life is like, and spending time with family too. Unless you are sending him up chimneys or down mines, that's exactly the sort of life experience I'd want for any child. It's a shame most don't get the opportunity.
If you were pulling him out of school to work for you, then yes I would think you were a rotten parent.

Actually, that did genuinely happen to a friend of mine when I was at school. Her mother kept her home to help out with her business. It started off as a day here or there, and ended up being weeks at a time. She ended up in a children's home after she was taken into care, and I lost touch with her then.

I'd say the obvious thing would be not to always put your employees families before your own. You sound like a decent boss, I am sure your employees appreciate that. Every job I've ever had has had competition for leave during school holidays. As long as the available time was divided fairly, it was never an issue, even if it meant not everyone got the holiday they wanted every year. The times it became a big deal was when it wasn't done fairly and certain people were seen to be getting more than their fair share. But I don't think anyone would begrudge the boss be entitled to ask for time off then as well.

I disagree. It puts kids back further than you think, and it holds the rest of the class back because the teacher has to play catch-up to get the ones who missed it back up to speed. If just 10 kids are taken out at different times for 2 weeks each, that class will be disrupted for half the school year. And that's before you get into the issues around the sort of example that's being set.

Hi mogadon.
I've got so many points regarding your post, but so little time to say them, so here goes.
Illegal is quite a strong term , against school/LEA policy is probably more accurate.
Your paragraph 2 is quite interesting and quite damning -- how would lit work in a rural area (like mine) where schools are few and far between ? As an aside, my lad is chugging along ever so fair at school despite (or because of ) him taking some time off to have some family holiday time.

My son is 6 and comes to work with me as and when he can. He partially learned to count from road signs, telephone numbers on lorry sides and picked up some of his addition from totalling up invoices. I haven't started on VAT, percentages and profit margins with him yet, but I will do. Soon

There's no possibility whatsoever of him coming to work with me more often, as he would miss his buddies, his teachers and his school to much.

I own a small Company and it is astonishingly difficult to do everything that I would like to do for the people that I work with (even more so in the current business climate), but making sure that they get time off with their families is something that I can do. My sons school, have a very realistic approach to the difficulties of parental leave, some of the schools that the children of my staff attend may not be as realistic.

Without going into to much detail of my own personal circumstances, not all schools contain several hundred children (thousand ?) and there still exists (usually in rural areas) schools where the entire school roll is under 100, and a 'year' can have as few as 6 in it.
Children being absent during term time doesn't seem to affect them. The numpties are still numpties and the advanced stay advanced :beer:

PolishBigSpender wrote: »

Wow.

In Poland, if we want to take our children out of school, all we do is write a letter informing the school that the child will be absent for two weeks/four weeks/whatever. The school simply isn't interested unless attendance drops below 50% - at which point, the child can fail the school year and must repeat.

All this talk of "fines" is terrifying stuff - what does it achieve to take money AWAY from families? I really don't understand - especially in "working poor" families! I'm frankly shocked that someone thinks that it's a good idea to fine parents for something that is really quite trivial.

Education is not, and never will be about statistics.

It was the catchall solution to everything under the last Government - if in doubt, take money off people.

easy wrote: »

Hmm.

Radio 4s program PM did a piece about this a while ago, and a blog page . In the comments on that blog, I found this



Having seen my son go through 6 years of schooling, in a standard primary school (which has been judged 'good' by ofsted), I have consistently been pretty disappointed by the amount of 'work' they actually get through.

I can honestly say that taking a fortnight's holiday in term time will NOT leave such a huge gap in his learning that it will impact on his life, partly because so much of the curriculum is repeated, year on year.

We shall see if secondary school is any more demanding of his abilities ...

That was a cracking article easy - like you, I'm surprised at just how little is achieved in an academic Year. My son is constantly asking for more homework, of a harder/higher level that he gets given (especially things that he can do on a computer) and its quite a battle to get it for him. The lad needs driving on and setting higher and higher standards for him to aspire to, but the school doesn't seem to want to do it. On a regular basis he is working with the 'year' (or the 'year' above that) in some lessons and he flourishes when he does so -- unfortunately, IMO, it doesn't happen often enough.

Never mind, it doesn't seem to be doing him any harm, he's a smashing, all round lovely chap :j:j:j:j & yes I am enormously proud of him, and never miss a chance to tell him so :beer:

vodkachick68

I used to always take my kids out at term time when they were at primary school. I try not to now as my daughter is 14 and at a crucial time of her education. I think a family holiday is very important to us as it gives us quality time away together,to relax and also have fun,and it can be educational. Last year i asked for the last week off before summer holidays. My sons school (primary) authorised this with no problems. My daughters school (secondary) would not authorise. I just took her out anyway unauthorised and have not heard anything. It would have cost me £600 more for the holiday to go a week later!! :eek: I think it depends on where you live. I'm sorry but for me it is purely financial,it hacks me off when the honest hardworking family that wants a once a year holiday gets fined,when you have parents whose kids are forever truanting and no-one bats an eyelid! Until the travel industry stop charging rip-off prices in school holidays,people will still take their kids out in termtime!!

moneypooh

It seems from the posts that the holidays being taken are foreign, that's why there is a big cost issue. When we couldn't afford to take a holiday during the school break we chose a UK holiday instead. You can have just as good a family break in this country as you can abroad (OK weather permitting). So I'm not sure I totally agree with some of the reasons for term time holidays as you can get affordable holidays here in the UK, especially if this your main reason.

photome

moneypooh wrote: »

It seems from the posts that the holidays being taken are foreign, that's why there is a big cost issue. When we couldn't afford to take a holiday during the school break we chose a UK holiday instead. You can have just as good a family break in this country as you can abroad (OK weather permitting). So I'm not sure I totally agree with some of the reasons for term time holidays as you can get affordable holidays here in the UK, especially if this your main reason.

I have been going to Vegas for a few years where I can get a room that will sleep 4 in a 4 star hotel for about £35 a night and a 5+ star for less than £90 a night. where can I get the same standard of accom for the same price in the UK.

I also get food for a fraction of the cost

Fuel at about quarter of the cost

Customer service that a lot of UK hotels dont know anything about.

Yes I have to pay for flights but I know where I would rather go and I still think a fortnight in Vegas or Western USA would cost me less than a fortnight in the equivalent standard accom in the UK

Murphy_The_Cat

photome wrote: »

I have been going to Vegas for a few years where I can get a room that will sleep 4 in a 4 star hotel for about £35 a night and a 5+ star for less than £90 a night. where can I get the same standard of accom for the same price in the UK.

I also get food for a fraction of the cost

Fuel at about quarter of the cost

Customer service that a lot of UK hotels dont know anything about.

Yes I have to pay for flights but I know where I would rather go and I still think a fortnight in Vegas or Western USA would cost me less than a fortnight in the equivalent standard accom in the UK

ah come on photome, its not quite as rosy as that.

Away from Vegas, decent hotel prices are a (lot) more than £35 per nigh.
Food, whilst being cheaper than the UK, isn't the bargain it once was.
OK fuel is about a 1/2rd of the price of UK fuel, but you need to hire a car to put it into !

Customer service is generally very high (agreed), but in a 'budget' type hotel, how much service do people want, need or expect ?

As well as the flight, factor in currency exchange costs, car parking holiday insurance etc, etc. Once you add in ALL of your costs you get closer to a realistic comparison.

vodkachick68

photome wrote: »

I have been going to Vegas for a few years where I can get a room that will sleep 4 in a 4 star hotel for about £35 a night and a 5+ star for less than £90 a night. where can I get the same standard of accom for the same price in the UK.

I also get food for a fraction of the cost

Fuel at about quarter of the cost

Customer service that a lot of UK hotels dont know anything about.

Yes I have to pay for flights but I know where I would rather go and I still think a fortnight in Vegas or Western USA would cost me less than a fortnight in the equivalent standard accom in the UK

I do have to agree. I have had holidays in this country and by the time you have paid for a caravan for a week or two with say for example Haven,then you have your spending money and food to buy,and lets not forget the extortionate cost of petrol you might as well kiss goodbye to £1500-£2000!! I have paid £2300 for 2 weeks all inclusive for 4 of us to go to Rhodes in August. The key thing is i think is to book at least a year earlier for free child spaces and be prepared to spend a good couple of hours trawling the net for bargains.

easy

vodkachick68 wrote: »

I do have to agree. I have had holidays in this country and by the time you have paid for a caravan for a week or two with say for example Haven,then you have your spending money and food to buy,and lets not forget the extortionate cost of petrol you might as well kiss goodbye to £1500-£2000!! I have paid £2300 for 2 weeks all inclusive for 4 of us to go to Rhodes in August. The key thing is i think is to book at least a year earlier for free child spaces and be prepared to spend a good couple of hours trawling the net for bargains.

In addition, the weather uncertainty here just doesn't make for good holidays. How do you entertain children if the weather is lashing down & cold ? By spending HUGE amounts of money on awful attractions/dreadful cafes etc. and you'll still end up with whinging kids and feeling ready for a divorce.

If we go where the weather is good, a lot of the daytime entertaiment is there, on tap, on nice beaches & around a swimming pool. Sight-seeing & the educational stuff I mentioned earlier is nicer in good weather too (and we do that in the UK too, having family National Trust membership, which is well used ).


I'm sorry, you'll Never convince me that I'll get as good value for my £2000 - £3000 as I can get by going abroad.
Rather than having a mediocre holiday every year, we save up and have a REALLY good holiday at 2 or 3 year intervals. If we were to stick to school holidays, that would be 4 or 5 year intervals because of the prices.

Now I work hard for my money, and I reckon that I & my child deserve a good break at least every 2 or 3 years. Life is too short, you're a long time dead. So I will continue to take my child out of school for these enlightening and educational trips when I think it's suitable (avoiding the run-up to exams etc of course).

vodkachick68

easy wrote: »

In addition, the weather uncertainty here just doesn't make for good holidays. How do you entertain children if the weather is lashing down & cold ? By spending HUGE amounts of money on awful attractions/dreadful cafes etc. and you'll still end up with whinging kids and feeling ready for a divorce.

If we go where the weather is good, a lot of the daytime entertaiment is there, on tap, on nice beaches & around a swimming pool. Sight-seeing & the educational stuff I mentioned earlier is nicer in good weather too (and we do that in the UK too, having family National Trust membership, which is well used ).


I'm sorry, you'll Never convince me that I'll get as good value for my £2000 - £3000 as I can get by going abroad.
Rather than having a mediocre holiday every year, we save up and have a REALLY good holiday at 2 or 3 year intervals. If we were to stick to school holidays, that would be 4 or 5 year intervals because of the prices.

Now I work hard for my money, and I reckon that I & my child deserve a good break at least every 2 or 3 years. Life is too short, you're a long time dead. So I will continue to take my child out of school for these enlightening and educational trips when I think it's suitable (avoiding the run-up to exams etc of course).

Yes i totally agree! Lets face it summers aren't what they used to be in this country,your lucky if you get a flipping suntan with this rubbish weather lol. As i said in a previous post i used to take my kids out in term time every year for 2 weeks. I never felt guilty as it was only once a year and i was paying a hell of alot less than in school holidays,and i would do it again if i had to. I also agree that a holiday abroad can be an educational experience,my kids have been to alot of different countries and experienced different cultures which i bet they wouldn't learn about at school!

You go for it and happy holidays!!

mogadon

Murphy_The_Cat wrote: »

Illegal is quite a strong term , against school/LEA policy is probably more accurate.

No, the correct term is illegal. It's illegal to keep children off school for unauthorised leave. Parents cannot authorise an absence, only the school can. Parents can, and have, been prosecuted for it.

Murphy_The_Cat wrote: »

Your paragraph 2 is quite interesting and quite damning -- how would lit work in a rural area (like mine) where schools are few and far between ?

Would you take your child out of school if you knew they would have to reapply for a school place when they came back, and probably wouldn't get back into their old school?

No-one on here is telling the OP to stuff the employer's opinion, and take the holiday without her OH having authorisation. Because, he wouldn't have a job when he came back, and quite right too.

Schools deserve the same respect.

The facility is already there anyway, schools can remove a child from the roll/register after 4 weeks of unauthorised absence. I'd like to see that period shortened.

I'd have no more sympathy for a parent who lost a school place for taking an unauthorised holiday than I would for an employee who did the same.