School declined holidays and branded the kids truants

Bettingmad

The posters who are preaching about how iresponsible parents are taking their children on term time holidays are probably wealthy enough to go on holiday at any time or do not have children.
I have never thought twice about doing this, if it means the difference of giving my child a holiday and to see the smile on their faces then it is worth it.
I always ensure their education does not suffer when doing this as if it were to be detrimental to them we would not go in term time.
For the record my child continued to achieve educationally and gained a major scholarship at 11yrs of age. She is expecting straight A's in her GCSE'S. She also had to chance to have nice holidays which otherwise she wouldn't have had due to affordability.
The bottom line is does it matter if it is not to their detriment?

Liquorice_Twirls

easy wrote: »

Hmm, that shows the HUGE hole in your geographical knowledge ..

Disney World isn't the only thing in Florida you know.

The Kennedy Space Centre and the Everglades pop IMMEDIATELY into my mind, both full of educational possibilities.

And Epcot "is dedicated to international culture and technological innovation."

Presumably the OP wasn't going to spend all 14 days of the holiday ogling Mickey & Donald.

I agree. A couple of years ago we managed to get tickets to see the Space Shuttle launch whilst we were in Florida. An incredible experience and very soon it won't be launching any more. Kennedy Space Centre is an fantastic place. We have been to talks by astronauts on our visits and when my daughter was 5 she was excited to touch a piece of moon rock and ask about how it got back here and she learned a lot about space (for a child of that age).

motherkitty

I totally agree with the OP. We are taking our first holiday abroad with the kids next week and the reason we are doing it out of school holiday time is not only because it is cheaper but also because it is the only time DH and I can book off from work together. Because employers place restrictions on how many people they will let take holiday at one time (for me it is 2 and for DH only one) you are also fighting along with everyone else for the same weeks. I contacted my son's school (he is in year 7) to see what their policy was and was told that they have only just stopped authorising holiday as they were told to bring themselves in line with other schools in the area. I explained that it was the only time we could take off together and she suggested a letter from our employers confirming this. The holiday was approved but if it had not, it would have been unauthorised absence and we would have been liable for a fine. Different schools in our area have different policies, but surely it looks worse on a school to have unauthorised absences rather than approved holidays on their absentee stats. Friends of DH told him that they can threaten a fine but it is unenforceable and I don't know of anyone who has paid it. You have given the school plenty of notice, maybe you could appeal to their better nature, particularly as the policy hasn't actually changed yet, and tell them you will make sure the kids catch up on any work they have missed. It does bug me that schools can close at the drop of a hat due to 1cm of snow on the ground, close because prehistoric heating systems break down in the winter, organise their own holidays in term time which aren't necessarily educational, but if you choose to take your own kids away when you feel it would be in their best interests to do so, you are made to feel like criminals. Don't let the killjoys make you feel guilty. I hope you go and have a really good time!

mumps

Murphy_The_Cat wrote: »

Have you considered that for business people (on man bands), self employed, agricultural workers etc etc that they have demands place upon them over and above when it fits in with the school timetable ?

I live on the coast and you are so right. It would be funny if all the hotels, B&Bs, cafes, holiday parks etc were closed or short staffed in school holidays so owners/staff could have holidays. School holidays are when the people down here make the money to get through the long, cold winter. We do have out of season visitors and businesses do offer cheap out of season holidays because some income is better than none.

I don't think any school has a problem with this locally, I certainly never had a request turned down.

Torry_Quine

I tend to think that it is very irresponsible to take children out of school for holidays. As a child I didn't have holidays as a rule and can honestly say that I never took time off other than for illness. A holiday is a luxury not an essential and if there isn't the money to go abroad then this is a lovely country which many people have never even begun to explore.

Murphy_The_Cat

mogadon wrote: »

When you sign your kids up to school you sign them up for the whole package, not just the bits you want to pick and choose. No-one is forced to send them to school, they can home educate and take them on holiday whenever they want.

But, most parents don't want that sort of hassle or inconvenience, and of course it would eat into the finances, making it harder to fund those essential and expensive foreign holidays. They just want to be able to pull kids out of school when it suits them.

What a great way to teach kids that rules don't apply to them. No wonder we end up with so many self-entitled adults that expect the world to bend to their every whim, and are then shocked to discover that employers don't see it that way.

A holiday is not a basic human right or need. Perhaps there are lots of people who are really in a position where they can never ever spend time with their children during the QUARTER of a year when the kids are off school. Not even just staying home together or a weekend away.

That's a shame for them, but there are many people who can't take a holiday at any time of year, for health, financial or other reasons. Yet miraculously they seem to survive. Holidays are a luxury, a child's education is far more important. At least it should be, but I suppose it depends where the parents' priorities lie.

hello mogadon
Fortunately, my sons Headmistress has a very realistic, real world opinion on bringing up a child and educating them in an all round way. Some of the techniques that they use at my lads school are very unusual, but they do work very well - as does letting the children have some hugely valuable, high quality, hard core, intensive, full on, all day round family time.
Once again, I'll tell it as it is, I'll take my children out of school as and when it suits my circumstances, and in my case at least, its nowt to do with money. For me, its with the schools blessing, which is handy. If the school wasn't prepared to 'permit' me to care for my family/children in the (IMO) best possible way, well c'est la vie, I'll have to live with that.
Me bad.
Me very bad.

I suppose that you would consider me a rotten, boo hiss parent for having my son working with me for part of his holidays ? I don't, as its something that I/we enjoy enormously and that we've both seen huge benefits from. It wouldn't suit some people, but it suits ud VERY well indeed.;).

I get what you are saying about some parents not getting the chance to spend the time that they would want to due to working/business committments. We are living in very unsettled times and a lot of people are having to do a lot of things that they would not choose to do. In the case of small business people/self employed, I could easily imagine that a lot of people are doing the work that they previously employed someone to do, to keep costs down. I could easily imagine that because they are doing it themselves, they show a great deal more committment and effort than an hourly paid worker. I can also imagine that the extra work, effort and committment brings in additional work that also needs to be covered. Unfortunately, in the current business climate, a lot of people feel that they are unable to take on additional staff as they are extremely concerned about adding to the costs of their small business.
So they do the work themselves.
Perhaps doing a 16 or 18 hour day.
For an extended period.
To keep the business going, to create enough profits to satisfy the bank, to be able to draw a salary, to pay their mortgage, keep their house heated, keep their cupboards stocked and to provide for their family.

Perhaps, just perhaps, at some stage, they have the completely understandable desire to have some leisure time with their family. Possibly, they always make a point of making sure that their employees get the holiday times that they want first, which, because they are also family people, is inevitably school holiday time. The business has to function, their always has to be someone 'on the shop floor', so, for a goodly amount of small businessmen, after they've made sure that their employees are getting their holiday time in, the only time that is available to them is during school term time -- so, what is more important ? Having some valuable holiday time with your family, or maintaining a line of ticks in a school register ?

For me, its the former, but the opinion of others may differ

But I will concede one point to you, when you infer that a childs education takes precedence over a 'luxury' of quality family time - their will be very important times in the decade or so that the system tries to get children to count, read, write and use their noggin when it is completely inappropriate to take them out of school, but I would suggest that for the vast majority of a childs time at school, a week here of there in a 3 term academic year won't make a blind bit of difference - as long as the child/youth isn't as thick as a workhouse butty.

As for where my priorities lie, I'll share mine with you. I work to provide for my family. In the best way that I possibly can. The system may see thing differently to that. But I can live with that. :beer:

thommy

wallbash wrote: »

If you had spent more time at school , you would have the education to follow the argument.

i'm sorry, but the above comment appears to have come straight in from the playground.

Murphy_The_Cat

Torry_Quine wrote: »

I tend to think that it is very irresponsible to take children out of school for holidays. As a child I didn't have holidays as a rule and can honestly say that I never took time off other than for illness. A holiday is a luxury not an essential and if there isn't the money to go abroad then this is a lovely country which many people have never even begun to explore.

You and others have mentioned the issue of money, affordabilty, & going abroard -- for a lot of people, its none of these.
Its a lot more basic that that.
They are only able to arrange their holidays around their employers/business contractual arrangements, not when the the LEA tells them they should be on holiday.

Of course, if I had access to 13 weeks paid holiday time per year, I'd find things a lot easier to arrange. :beer:

thommy

cubegame wrote: »

You should look up yield management. You can't simplistically apply the idea of current demand to the set price. Holiday companies have years of data showing month by month demand and fix prices accordingly.

I suppose you think everyone should pay the same for our holidays, with those of us without children subsidizing those who do. Oh hang on, we already do that with the ridiculous hand outs in the form of tax credit you get for pursuing your lifestyle choice..........

i don't need to. yield management often ends up with price discrimination. also, there's a difference between the price fixing that you're talking about and the price fixing of companies that collude to charge an unfair price for goods and services.

re your second point. it's as daft a thing to say as if someone told you that you are selfish for choosing NOT to have children.....

mogadon

easy wrote: »

Of course we are, in the main, forced to send them to school. The law says they must be educated, and HUGE numbers of parents would feel (and in fact, would be) unequal to the task of home educating. Of course most families can only afford to go on these holidays because both parents are in paid employment. Furthermore, many people feel home educating is too closed an environment for most children.

If on balance, parents feel that overall school is the better option (and I certainly think it is), they need to accept it comes as a package. You are agreeing that you and, to the best of your ability, your children, will abide by the rules. That means they go in to school every day that they are fit enough to do so, will be dressed appropriately, etc, etc.. Keeping a child off school for an authorised holiday is illegal, and it is detrimental to that child and to the rest of the class. If you don't want to abide by the school rules, make other arrangements for your child's education.

For the vast majority of parents not taking holidays during term time doesn't mean no holiday at all, just that they have to scale their expectations back a bit.

easy wrote: »

Our head teacher has just authorised a holiday for 2 children in the school so they can go on holiday with their father. He is in the armed forces. So he was away on active service over Christmas AND Easter. He isn't just "pulling the kids out of school when it suits him"

That's exactly the sort of situation that led to heads being given the ability to authorise term time holidays in the first place. But the system had been abused by too many parents who are more interested in saving a few quid.

easy wrote: »

and a child's education doesn't ONLY happen in a school.

Of course it doesn't, but their schooling only happens during term time. Parents have 13 weeks school holidays, weekends, evenings, bank holidays, etc etc, when they can provide their own education. It doesn't need to be done during school hours.